Cramped geometry

[Monsieur Remings]

Have just purchased a new Carbon Ribble and very pleased with the bike. However, a couple of hundred miles down the line I've started getting some lower back pain and really concentrating hard on what could be the problem, feel that the geometry feels almost cramped, if that makes sense?

The stem is 110mm on the bike and so I was first wondering whether I should opt for something longer? However having checked the distance between the h/bar and saddle thinking that this could be the problem (in with the stem length) I found that, in fact, the distance between was longer, by about 7 cm than on my other bike - a Giant Defy 3. I've since moved the saddle forward but am unsure whether this is going to help?

I also know that the handlebars are higher on the Defy 3? Any suggestions?

I appreciate the difference in geometry means the Sportive is lower so maybe I just need to get used to it but I couldn't/didn't pick this up when I went for a test ride. What do you all reckon? Will try and find a geometry guide to compare both bikes - in my inexperienced eye they are very similar...

 

[Deleted member 1258]

Possible stem to long, or handle bars to low, saddle should be positioned so when the crank is at three o'clock the knee is over the pedal spindle. Lots of information here http://www.caree.org/bike101bikefit.htm

 

[mcshroom]

Check your saddle height as well. I found that mine was too high and that was causung aches in my lower back

 

[paddy01]

Check your saddle height as well. I found that mine was too high and that was causung aches in my lower back

Exactly the advice I was given Saturday during a bike fitting, I had the saddle a little too high which put undue stress on my lower back (which is dodgy anyway).

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Okay, thanks people. Think I might have to raise the handlebars too...anyone flipped a stem to achieve this effect or would folks recommend spacers?

 

[paddy01]

Unless you want to cut down the steerer I'd personally go spacers, just looks neater to me, but that's a personal rather than technical / mechanical reason

 

[Monsieur Remings]

You’re always scooting back on the seatStem may be too short so you feel cramped and push yourself back; saddle nose may be tipped back; saddle may be too far forward on the railsInstall a longer stem; level the seat and center it on the rails; move your seat back
Also check page on saddlesLower back hurtsStem too low or too long; must strain back to reach bars; or seat may be too high, causing rocking when pedalingTry raising the stem/handlebars; still hurts? try shorter stem; check and adjust seat height
These are the two bits that apply best DaveR and thanks for that helpful link.

 

[festival]

Generally a well designed well fitted frame should only ever require a stem of 100 or 110 mm at most.
Of course some riders body shape require adaptations to suit and there have been passing fashions over the years.
The giant envy has a high head tube, shorter top tube and longer wheelbase than its pure race bike version. its built light and lively but comfortable and for endurance riding, you could call it a 'sportive' bike.
So why does it differ so much from your ribble 'sportive' ? and why are you so pleased with your new bike ?
Is it because ribble give you an excellent group set and finishing kit etc and a carbon frame and fork?
Well, a lot of people buy bikes like this from various sources with little or no knowledge and have nothing to compare it to and struggle with the bike never knowing the benefits of a well made frame.
You have the experience of the giant, and the benefit of the massive R&D that they put into their frames, creating some of the best in the world.
Some of these cheap carbon frames are awful to ride and some are ok, but the geometry is not suitable for everyone.
Just stop and think about what you and others have just said about putting it right.
"Lowering the saddle and raising the bars" seems to me you are trying to make an illfitting frame fit, you may change the position but how will it handle?

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Fair points but I'm not about to give up on it yet! I wouldn't have picked up on this, as I said, from a test ride. Also, I looked into the components I was buying after 6 months of consideration and of course the bike looks nice (IMO) but that's not why I bought it. The frame on different components was given very good reviews, as was the SRAM Rival groupset and the Mavic Ksyrium Elites are also rated so I wouldn't say I've taken a punt exactly.

I'm not the most experienced rider but if, as you say, the Giant Defy Carbon is a different geometry to the Aluminium I have, then I could also have upgraded to a fellow Giant only to find that it too was too low, high, too cramped etc?

I wanted to upgrade and have something more race orientated and I have experienced a few back issues - maybe as I get used to it, it won't happen or maybe a few alterations could make all the difference to me and no difference whatsoever to how it handles? Just a thought but thanks, genuinely, for yours.

 

[festival]

I have just re read my earlier post and I have realised that in my haste i have not made clear what i meant ( i have adjusted it now)and misled you ab.out the different giant models
Also, although i may have been a little blunt (sorry) the point is you have bought a 'sportive bike' which is very different than your giant which is also a 'sportive bike' although giant market it as endurance.
A lot of people are understandably taken by the deals on offer on price without worrying about the quality of the ride the frame will give or the fit. e.g. one 57cm frame can be very different to another as far as the geometry goes.
The carbon boardmans were similarly good deals (lets not comment on the service at halfrauds) but the opinion was the quality of ride over long distances was poor and not comfortable for the average rider.
Anyway i am going off again, I know the ribbles have had a good write up and i hope you enjoy it

 

[Banjo]

I had similar issues with my new Scott a couple of years ago. Eased the strain on my back by flipping the stem (5 minute job at zero cost) then after a few months like that put the stem back as it was and my back was ok.

Now I find the bike really comfortable. Just a case of a bit of fine tuning the fit then getting used to it.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Festival, no problem, I will enjoy it.

Banjo, thanks for that. I went for a small spin today to the LBS in Weston-Super-Mud having brought the seat forward. Felt much much better, more comfortable on the hoods but slightly less so on the drops. Anyway, the chap at the shop said saddle height was fine (I thought it was) and took a few other measurements on the blocks and all A-okay. He swiveled the bars up a touch and offered to flip the stem but I think I'll wait for that. Feels slightly better and will just have to become a gradual process of getting it right, cm by cm. Feels almost like now the bars are a cm or so higher that I should put the seat back now a cm or so....though some have warned against that???

Thanks for the input one and all....

 

[cyberknight]

Check your saddle height as well. I found that mine was too high and that was causung aches in my lower back

+1 i have 2 bikes that had exactly the same measurements for set up but 1 has a saddle that gives more, the harder saddled bike gave me back ache till i dropped the seatpost 2 -3 mm to account for less give.

 

[Jezston]

GO INTO A SHOP!

Get someone who knows what they are doing to sit you up on your bike in a trainer and analyse your riding position. Tinkering yourself without knowing what you are doing is potentially just going to make things worse.

 

[Broadside]

How are your hamstrings? Too short or under stretched and they can rotate your pelvis putting additional strain on your lower back. If you have just upped your mileage while enjoying yor new bike your hamstrings will shorten unless you specifically stretch them after each ride.