Cycle To Work Scheme and Bike Choice

[DonnyDarko]

Hi,

I just joined the forum having searched the web for an hour or so and not really fully found my answers.

Firstly, I want to find out what the maximum value bike I can get out of the Cycle to Work Scheme is if I run a Limited company (therefore am the employer and the employee).

I want a XC bike (around 2k) and a Downhill bike (around 3.5k). Clearly I'll be sticking one in the name of my partner who is also classed as an employee of the company.

So I'm hoping for no max value, or a fair chance of getting a max of 3.5k out of it. I'm hoping to end up paying about £2.5k for the two at the end of it (I'm assuming after offsetting the cost/discount from my tax bill?).

All being well, I'd also like to use this thread to find out what sort of bikes I can get for the values I mention.

I don't mind last years models (so that I get a better bike for the value) as I'll be keeping them both for some time, and don't mind upgrading them as I break things / they wear out.

So...

A) What's a decent Cross Country bike at the moment? - I'm looking for a hard tail with decent front suspension I think.

B) What's a decent down hill bike at the moment? - I'm looking for long travel I think. Very decent quality. Lightweight if possible too (if such a thing exists).
Perhaps I wait for the 2012 models to come out so that the 2011's are cheaper and I get the 2011?

If anybody can help with any of the issues that would be great. I understand many may not be able to help me with the Cycle to Work Scheme related questions, but I'm sure most of you will be able to help me choose the bikes.

So please at least help me with the bikes. I might just buy them outright if the tax thing doesn't work out too advantageous.

Thanks
DonnyDarko

 

[wheres_my_beard]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a useful site >> http://www.bike2workscheme.co.uk/faqs.php

The max value of purchases using the scheme (bike/s + accessories) is £1,000, employees are not permitted to add any money to this to top up the value.

Your may need to make some proper enquiries about essentially hiring a bike to yourself through this scheme tho. There may be some legal issues involved.

 

[diapason]

My company law is rusty, (and I'm not a lawyer) but, I think that as the 'company' is classed as a'person' in law, then the bike would be bought by the company and leased to the director who is an employee.

 

[DonnyDarko]

Hi,

Apparently if the company has a "Consumer Credit license" it can offer employees bikes (inc accessories) up to the value of £4.5k per person.

@diapason, you're right buddy. As I run a Limited company, I'm effectively an employee of it. So the company has it's own credit, bank, persona effectively, and I'm just on a wage sort of thing. Same with the Mrs too.

Getting a bit of mixed advice so I've asked my account too but any extra information I can get her would be great and will speed up her enquiries.

The £1k limit thing is a safety thing to cover people leaving work. Clearly I won't be leaving my work so that doesn't come into it. But I still think I'll have to get this consumer credit license thing. And providing it doesn't interfere with getting a couple of cars next year too, then I'm fine getting one from Office of Fair Trading (it seems you get them from).

@User, yes mate. Me and the Mrs have had a baby, and we'd both like to get a bit fitter. We ski and are quite active at times but finding time to do all that is providing to be a pain in the back side. So we're thinking if we get a couple of decent bikes that can be used for all sorts of things including riding to and from work would be a very good idea.

I'll be getting the bikes either way I think. it would just be nice if we could get the VAT back, get a discount off them, and then also offset any applicable costs against our tax bills at the end of the year. Would make a £3k bike quite cheap for me which would be really nice.


Any more info on the scheme would be cool. Especially from somebody who's been in my shoes.

Though either way - give me some advice on bikes! I've been looking for days now and am baffled!

 

[DonnyDarko]

Had a couple of recommendations on another forum but would like to get your view as well.

For the XC - steel Whyte 19 Trail (found a allow and steel - I'm guessing alloy would be better/lighter?)
For the DH - 2011 Morewood Makulu - This looks stunning on their website(s). Wouldn't mind one of these at all. Seems to have good reviews everywhere too.


Any other options you guys would shout about?

 

[Red Light]

The £1k limit thing is a safety thing to cover people leaving work. Clearly I won't be leaving my work so that doesn't come into it. But I still think I'll have to get this consumer credit license thing.

Its going to cost the company over £1200 to get a Consumer Credit License plus a load of work to apply and maintain compliance. So you might want to rethink how good a deal it would be.

 

[vickster]

Retailers don't usually give reductions on bikes purchased through C2W either. Haggling, cash and a cheery smile help to secure decent prices (especially on an outgoing model)

Also, didn't they change the rules about the VAT, so it's less of a good deal now?

 

[DonnyDarko]

Its going to cost the company over £1200 to get a Consumer Credit License plus a load of work to apply and maintain compliance. So you might want to rethink how good a deal it would be.

Yeah I just worked that out earlier. So with me AND the Mrs getting a bike, I need to work out at what point it does make it worth while. If I got a 3k bike and the mrs a 2. I think it still might be worth it given the fact I'd be able to claim the VAT back, and get the discount, and then get the bikes at a reasonable price at the end of the 'loan' term.

Or at least that what it seems like at the mo.

Retailers don't usually give reductions on bikes purchased through C2W either. Haggling, cash and a cheery smile help to secure decent prices (especially on an outgoing model)

Also, didn't they change the rules about the VAT, so it's less of a good deal now?

I'll speak to some suppliers, that's something that's come up a lot this discount thing. But I am VAT registered so (and from what I can tell so far as long as the company you work for is....?) it doesn't matter. Not fully clued up on it all and there is contradicting information available online but written from 2009 to now, and apparently there has been changes too. So christ knows.

Hopefully the account will be able to help but she doesn't ride to work so unless she's dealt with this for other customers I'm not sure what she could say without looking into it. So I'm trying to get some info for her for tomorrow.

Want to get the ball rolling if I can, asap. If I can get the bikes before the really cold nights I think we'll enjoy it. I think if we get them during icy conditions the Mrs might give up until Spring and I'd be riding alone for the most part.

 

[vickster]

Norm of this parish is rather knowledgeable on these matters, hopefully he'll saunter past and help

 

[montyboy]

Just get the company to buy itself a bike. Tax deductable and vat back. End of story

 

[Norm]

Just get the company to buy itself a bike. Tax deductable and vat back. End of story

This would be my suggestion too, as long as the bike has a legitimate business use.

Another suggestion, if you do go with the Cycle to work regs, is keep very clear of any of the schemes which allegedly "help" you to administer the scheme. The schemes are a piece of cake to set up and run, especially if there are just 2 employees, and you will hate yourself at the money you waste using someone like Cyclescam.

The £1k limit isn't to protect people who might leave, it's because there is a general prohibition on companies doing stuff like this, so they've issued a specific exemption. That limit was chosen because there are very few who would want to spend over £1k on a commuter hack.

If your company runs your own scheme, then most bike shops will give the same discount. The main time they don't discount is when you use third party companies, like Cyclescam, to do the purchase as they take 10% of the sales price for themselves so the dealer only gets 90%. If you have your own scheme, the shop gets all the price paid so you'll get a discount (depending on your negotiating skills).

 

[DonnyDarko]

Norm of this parish is rather knowledgeable on these matters, hopefully he'll saunter past and help

Fingers crossed then.

Just get the company to buy itself a bike. Tax deductable and vat back. End of story

I first thought that, in fact thought it all summer. But I do want to use the bikes for other uses and don't want them to become assets of the business of which there could soon be partners and it just all could get messy.


On another note, I'll be expanding soon and want to get my head around all this so that if I pay the £1200 to get my license I can offer employees a serious benefit (and perhaps get the right employees as a result? - I'll pester you with those questions next year haha) of not just a bike and kit under 1k, but a bike and kit up to say 3k that they WILL keep and CAN use for other things too.

I've only just heard about this scheme and I'm sorry to hear that. As an employee and a cyclist (albeit off-road) I'd have thought I'd have heard about this before now. I think I've either been asleep too much or the government hasn't pushed this as much as some other campaigns. Which is a shame if it's the latter.

But at least for my employees, and myself, I'm trying to find out and hope to get to the bottom of how many employee's, what wage they're on, what value bikes, etc etc it takes to get the most benefit out of this scheme.

Got a few threads going on a few forums and i have to say so far I like this forum the best. Some very honest and frank views and I think that helps get to the bottom of it quickly. And that's what I want I guess. haha

 

[vickster]

Norm just posted ^^^ ...ears like a bat, that one and Spidey sense to boot

 

[DonnyDarko]

This would be my suggestion too, as long as the bike has a legitimate business use.

Looks like we replied about the same time there - checkout my response above.

Another suggestion, if you do go with the Cycle to work regs, is keep very clear of any of the schemes which allegedly "help" you to administer the scheme. The schemes are a piece of cake to set up and run, especially if there are just 2 employees, and you will hate yourself at the money you waste using someone like Cyclescam.

I'll be doing this direct with Office of Fair Trading (for the license) and via my accountant (for the paperwork) and HMRC (for the tax benefits - as normal).
Though I did wonder what the crack is with these websites I keep finding that seem to be middlemen where middlemen didn't look like they were needed.

Do you know if Evan's Ride2Work scheme is any good or gets involved too much with it by chance?

The £1k limit isn't to protect people who might leave, it's because there is a general prohibition on companies doing stuff like this, so they've issued a specific exemption. That limit was chosen because there are very few who would want to spend over £1k on a commuter hack.

I was quoting some other website there I think. I'm still yet to find answers from official people as I've only asked since friday night.
But I'm hoping I can spend about £3k max on one bike for myself. Then the rest cheaper but I'd like the option to use it for future staff.

If your company runs your own scheme, then most bike shops will give the same discount. The main time they don't discount is when you use third party companies, like Cyclescam, to do the purchase as they take 10% of the sales price for themselves so the dealer only gets 90%. If you have your own scheme, the shop gets all the price paid so you'll get a discount (depending on your negotiating skills).

Considering this too to be honest, running my own scheme that is, but I'd still need to work out what this scheme is all about so I can offer something better etc.

I'm hoping the cycle to work scheme is decent though as I'd like to offer employees a chance to get their own bikes if they stay with the company. And not just 1k bikes. I'd use it as a long-term benefit for the company.

I'd like to look at my company being as cool as Google one day when it comes to staff benefits and working practises to be honest so this is one of a bunch of avenues I'm trying to look into from that point of view.

 

[DonnyDarko]

ps thanks for posting norm.

Seems you do have ears like a bat haha.