Diminishing performance on a set of intervals

[Twilkes]

In a set of 5x2 minute intervals, with the instruction do them all 'all-out', I assume the last 2 minutes won't be as quick as the first 2 minutes. Does that matter?

How much of a deterioration is expected, or is it the 'all-out' bit that is the most important?

 

[Moodyman]

It's normal if you're going guns blazing. Though I think you're 2 mins might be too long to be effective.

For ultimate gains, you shouldn't be able to go much beyond 60 seconds, with the period 40-60 seconds feeling like you're going to puke.

At 60 seconds you should be hating yourself and promise never to do it again.

If you're able to do 2 mins, then think about raising the resistance or riding a shorter steeper hill.

Edit: absolutely horrid, but nothing else comes close to fitness gains.

 

[Twilkes]

It's normal if you're going guns blazing. Though I think you're 2 mins might be too long to be effective.

For ultimate gains, you shouldn't be able to go much beyond 60 seconds, with the period 40-60 seconds feeling like you're going to puke.

At 60 seconds you should be hating yourself and promise never to do it again.

If you're able to do 2 mins, then think about raising the resistance or riding a shorter steeper hill.

Edit: absolutely horrid, but nothing else comes close to fitness gains.

Ah okay, it was from a Strava '6 minute hill climb' training plan, but a recent segment I was trying was around 60 seconds and I was always spent after that, so will try 1 minute intervals and see how it goes.

 

[Twilkes]

It's normal if you're going guns blazing. Though I think you're 2 mins might be too long to be effective.

For ultimate gains, you shouldn't be able to go much beyond 60 seconds, with the period 40-60 seconds feeling like you're going to puke.

At 60 seconds you should be hating yourself and promise never to do it again.

If you're able to do 2 mins, then think about raising the resistance or riding a shorter steeper hill.

Edit: absolutely horrid, but nothing else comes close to fitness gains.

And does all-out imply a standing sprint? I rarely get out of the saddle in normal cycling so not sure if I should stick with that for the intervals.

 

[Moodyman]

There are two types of intervals:

Intervals - hard but manageable. So, 2-3 mins is about right.

High Intensity Intervals (HIIT) - 40- 60 seconds at 100% during which the first third must be manageably hard, second third hard and painful and the final third, ohh my god..I want this to stop.

 

[Moodyman]

And does all-out imply a standing sprint? I rarely get out of the saddle in normal cycling so not sure if I should stick with that for the intervals.

Edit as I misread the question: the interval time must be from the point you fire into the highest gear. If you're doing hill repeats outside, you use the downhill to recover and as you're doing the u turn at the bottom, use that as a rolling start. So for a 60 second interval you must be working at 100% from the off.

It's normal to be spent the following day, sometimes two days later.

 

[Twilkes]

Edit as I misread the question: the interval time must be from the point you fire into the highest gear. If you're doing hill repeats outside, you use the downhill to recover and as you're doing the u turn at the bottom, use that as a rolling start. So for a 60 second interval you must be working at 100% from the off.

It's normal to be spent the following day, sometimes two days later.

Sorry, my wording, you might have had it right the first time, by 'standing sprint' I meant riding out of the saddle, I would already be getting up to speed before starting the interval. So should I do the intervals out of the saddle even if I rarely ever ride like that. (6ft5 and 95kg, I think bigger riders fare less well out of the saddle)

 

[Twilkes]

I found Strava's definitions of the different kinds of intervals they put in their training plans, I guess a 2-3 minute all-out means what you can sustain for that period of time, rather than absolute max effort which would run out much earlier. Either way, there's a wide industrial estate road near me that is quiet just now so I'll have a safe place to do some of these, and it means not going too far from home.

Aiming to take a 1.2k hill climb from 4m08s to 3m50s in a month, no idea how close I'll get but I need something to focus on at the moment!

Climbing Repeats (CR) · Intensity 8 of 10
Increased climbing power at lactate threshold. (85-90 RPM)
Descending Intervals (DI) · Intensity 10 of 10
Maximal efforts of decreasing length. (110+ RPM)
Endurance Miles (EM) · Intensity 5 of 10
Basic aerobic development. (85-95 RPM)
High Speed Sprints (HSS) · Intensity 10 of 10
Out-of-the-saddle sprint intervals starting at a high speed. (110+ RPM)
Over Under Intervals (OU) · Intensity 9 of 10
Increased sustained power, above and below threshold. (90-100 RPM)
Power Intervals (PI) · Intensity 10 of 10
Increased power at VO2 max. (95+ RPM)
Speed Intervals (SI) · Intensity 10 of 10
Repeated, short max efforts to familiarize you with intensity and accelerations. (110+ RPM)
Steady State Intervals (SS) · Intensity 7 of 10
Increased sustained power at lactate threshold on flat/rolling terrain. (85-95 RPM)
Stomps (S) · Intensity 10 of 10
Muscular power training via very short, seated sprints in your hardest gear. (95+ RPM)
Tempo Intervals (T) · Intensity 6 of 10
Improved aerobic endurance by using moderate resistance and lower cadence. (70-75 RPM)
Muscle Tension (MT) · Intensity of 6 of 10
Improved neuromuscular recruitment by engaging more muscle during prolonged interval with higher resistance and lower cadence.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

In a set of 5x2 minute intervals, with the instruction do them all 'all-out', I assume the last 2 minutes won't be as quick as the first 2 minutes. Does that matter?

How much of a deterioration is expected, or is it the 'all-out' bit that is the most important?

Depends how much recovery you have between the 2 min all out. Possible to repeat it even in last interval if you have enough recovery time between. Just go as hard as you can but what recovery interval are they giving you between efforts? Your performance with a 20 second gap between intervals will be somewhat different than with a 2 minute gap between intervals.

 

[amasidlover]

Going by Allen & Coggan's Racing and Training with a Power Meter then you should be doing no more intervals after your power has dropped by 10% from the _3rd_ interval (its 3rd because there is some degree of over excitement then recovery and warming up in the first two) - that's the case for 2 minute intervals they recommend different percentages (smaller for longer intervals and larger for shorter intervals).

Also, from an anecdotal perspective, I've found its worth keeping an eye on HR as well as power - when I hit my physical limits (which I think is what the Allen & Coggan work is intending to use) my HR gets to the same level by the end of the interval but my power drops. When I am mentally not there (just not putting in enough effort) then my HR and power drop.

 

[Twilkes]

It's equal time recovery so 2 minutes effort, 2 minutes recovery, or 3 and 3 etc. The only different one is 8 minutes effort and 5 recovery, although that's not max effort and with instructions to keep performance the same across all 4 of those longer intervals.

I'm currently finding I don't need all the recovery time so probably not trying hard enough with the efforts! And I'm staying seated, can only really stay out of the saddle for 30 seconds in a fast sprint, maybe longer going uphill

 

[Twilkes]

Going by Allen & Coggan's Racing and Training with a Power Meter then you should be doing no more intervals after your power has dropped by 10% from the _3rd_ interval (its 3rd because there is some degree of over excitement then recovery and warming up in the first two) - that's the case for 2 minute intervals they recommend different percentages (smaller for longer intervals and larger for shorter intervals).

Also, from an anecdotal perspective, I've found its worth keeping an eye on HR as well as power - when I hit my physical limits (which I think is what the Allen & Coggan work is intending to use) my HR gets to the same level by the end of the interval but my power drops. When I am mentally not there (just not putting in enough effort) then my HR and power drop.

Thanks, that helps.

 

[HLaB]

In a set of 5x2 minute intervals, with the instruction do them all 'all-out', I assume the last 2 minutes won't be as quick as the first 2 minutes. Does that matter?

How much of a deterioration is expected, or is it the 'all-out' bit that is the most important?

Perfectly normal to lose a bit through cardiac drift. It is possible to reduce its impact however, but what is expected will vary due to fitness and its not a one size fits all %

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It's equal time recovery so 2 minutes effort, 2 minutes recovery, or 3 and 3 etc. The only different one is 8 minutes effort and 5 recovery, although that's not max effort and with instructions to keep performance the same across all 4 of those longer intervals.

Max effort is often mis understood. Your max effort for 15 seconds will be different to 30 seconds, different for 1 min, different for 2 mins. It’s the max effort you can manage for that duration.

If you are finding you don’t need as much recovery then you can shorten the recovery to the point that subsequent intervals are doable but it takes a lot of mental discipline to hang there. Try shortening the recovery intervals to 90 seconds and see how that goes. If still more than you need reduce recovery intervals to 60 seconds and see how that goes. I generally have my recovery intervals half as long as the actual high intensity interval.