Do I want a steel frame?

[Andrew Br]

Strangely enough lulubel, my GF is going through a similar exercise to you ie to find a bike that fits her. The main problem is getting one with a short enough reach. She's found that a 505mm effective top-tube is what she needs (although McB's mention of seat angle also affecting reach is a further thing that we'll have to factor in).
She started with a bigger budget than you because it will be a complete bike build and she was looking for carbon rather than steel (she has a steel tourer). Most of the bikes available off the shelf either didn't have the correct spec or the looks were wrong (pastel colours and flowers being a particular no-no for her).

Partly based on the positive feedback that he's received on this and other fora, but mainly because the price is so competitive, we're going to see Justin Burls next week to see about custom Ti and then we'll get the LBS to build the frame up.

Since we've been looking at carbon up 'til now, I can't give you any steel bike advice except to endorse what Crackle has said:-

The Pacer is more like an Audax bike, which in terms of having one bike to ride, a steel one, is what I'd say would suit you, it's just the problem of getting something in the size you need. If you're going Surly though, look at the Pacer.

A friend of our's bought a Pacer last year and she's been delighted with it. Apparently it rides better on 25mm tyres than her Al hybrid on 35mms. And it's much faster !

Good luck in your search.


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[GrumpyGregry]

http://villiers-velo.co.uk/

he once gave me a quote of £325 (IIRC) for a custom built frame, kinda regret not getting it.

got there before me....

 

[GrumpyGregry]

have a read of this and then make your own mind up.

http://www.fitwerx.com/an-overview-of-material-applications-in-bicycle-frames

basically it says that there can't be any perceptible difference in comfort between the different frame materials. i kinda find myself agreeing with it (but i'm no expert) as i can't tell the difference between my alloy touche and my steel il pompino with regards to road buzz. although my alloy bike has steel forks.

biggest difference I've found from steel and alloy bikes in the fleet is noticed when one swaps the wheels over from one to another. I find Halo deep section rims to be darned exhausting to ride on.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

biggest difference I've found from steel and alloy bikes in the fleet is noticed when one swaps the wheels over from one to another. I find Halo deep section rims to be darned exhausting to ride on.

i have deep section on both bikes and i do notice that when i'm out with other fixie riders, they seem to be able to acelerate bloody quick. i used to put this down to them being stronger than me, however i'm now wondering if my v deep section (35mm & 40mm) rims don't help (rotating mass and all that).

 

[lulubel]

I would add the qualifier that those building 26" below a certain size tend to be building for versatility and robustness. Their more road going machines may well be 700c throughout. A good example being the Xcheck v the LHT and the LHT also has all sizes available in 26", lending weight to the touring/robust idea.

It's a toughie, the Xcheck is a solid frame and I could manage a 16mph average over 20 miles on it, complete build weighed in at about 35lbs then you add me and panniers. I've also done a couple of rides over 100 miles on it without any problems, though the extra weight of the total bike got noticeable later on. But there's a lot of me and it was a 60cm frame, would it be a harsher ride for someone lighter, are the smaller frames using tubesets/design that allow for smaller riders? Plonk 16stone of me on a big steel frame and that frame is likely to behave in a compliant manner I'm mentioning this because, unless you plan on touring, I reckon the Xcheck or the Pacer are a better bet than the LHT, it also ensures your kit is transferable.

I can see where you're coming from here. If I'm looking for a bike that can do lots of things, there are going to be compromises and it isn't going to do any of them as well as a bike that's dedicated to one purpose. I like the more relaxed geometry of the LHT, but I do have concerns that a dedicated touring bike is going to feel a bit "cumbersome" for every day. Someone mentioned the Pacer not having rack mounts, which put it out of the running for me because I want my bike to have some degree of practicality even if I never tour with it. The Xcheck keeps going in and out of favour because it seems to tick a lot of boxes, but I'm not 100% certain about it for reasons I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it's rather more tough than I think I need.

 

[lulubel]

The main problem is getting one with a short enough reach. She's found that a 505mm effective top-tube is what she needs (although McB's mention of seat angle also affecting reach is a further thing that we'll have to factor in).

This is pretty much my situation too. If I had longer arms, I wouldn't be having such a problem!

 

[lulubel]

I sent an email to Condor earlier asking if they can supply the Fratello with steel forks, and had a reply within half an hour saying they can. I've sent another, longer email, with more questions, so I'll see what comes of that.

 

[Crackle]

You can use P-clips to mount a rack, not as elegant but they work well, I used them on my first 4 or 5 bikes but I think it would only be suitable for light touring anyway i.e. following the Thorn Audax guidelines.

 

[lulubel]

Seb from Condor replied to my email this morning. The price for the upgrade to steel forks on the Fratello is £30, making the price for the complete frameset £629.99.

I also asked him about handbuilt wheels and got a quote based on 8 stone rider, some very poor road surfaces, and commuting/day rides/light touring use. He came back with:

Regarding the wheels, I would suggest Shimano Tiagra hubs (32 hole), Condor Race rims (a high quality strong and lightweight double eyelet rim) and double butted spokes. For the pair, it would cost £209.96.

I know nothing about wheels, other than that's pretty close to the price of the ones I've been looking at. Does it seem reasonable? Does what he's recommended seem suitable for what I want to use them for?

I'm very tempted to just go ahead with it, but wanted to get some feedback here first.

 

[Crackle]

Don't know about the wheelset but 32 hole double butted sounds right.

As for the frame, I think it's gorgeous, absolutely lovely and it has all the braze-ons you need. You won't regret such a frame. I can't decide if blue or grey is nicer. Even the Orange looks good though.

I presume the supplied forks will have an uncut steerer, which is good. It means you can choose the height you want your bars on the bike before you cut the steerer tube.

 

[mickle]

 

[lulubel]

As for the frame, I think it's gorgeous, absolutely lovely and it has all the braze-ons you need. You won't regret such a frame. I can't decide if blue or grey is nicer. Even the Orange looks good though.

I presume the supplied forks will have an uncut steerer, which is good. It means you can choose the height you want your bars on the bike before you cut the steerer tube.

My first instinct was to go for the understated grey, but I'm started to feel really tempted by the orange. It just works somehow.

I don't know about the steerer. I'll have to ask. I was assuming they'd install the headset (I don't have the tools for that), but I don't know if that's possible without cutting the steerer?

This is why I couldn't do this without the help of all the experienced people on this forum. There are so many questions I don't know I need to ask.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I don't know about the steerer. I'll have to ask. I was assuming they'd install the headset (I don't have the tools for that), but I don't know if that's possible without cutting the steerer?

The Fratello as shown has aheadset. With steel forks withs steel steerer that means you don't have to cut the steerer if you don't want to, i.e. you can just fill the top and bottom of the stem up with spacers. It might look a little odd if the steerer is very long, but certainly some flexibility regarding the stem height can be handy, especially if you are buying remotely.

 

[lulubel]

The Fratello as shown has aheadset. With steel forks withs steel steerer that means you don't have to cut the steerer if you don't want to, i.e. you can just fill the top and bottom of the stem up with spacers. It might look a little odd if the steerer is very long, but certainly some flexibility regarding the stem height can be handy, especially if you are buying remotely.

That's great. I'll ask them to leave it uncut, then. I can play around with the height until I'm sure I'm happy before cutting it.

 

[lulubel]

I'm going to start a new thread about the wheels. There are probably loads of people who know about wheels who aren't following this one.