Education or Vocation

[deanE]

UK population 22-64 by highest qualifications % in 2010
Degree 25%
Higher Education 10%
A-levels 21%
GCSE A*-C 20%
Other Qualifications 12%
No Qualifications 11%

UK population 22-64 by highest qualifications % in 1993
Degree 12%
Higher Education 8%
A-levels 23%
GCSE A*-C 17%
Other Qualifications 15%
No Qualifications 25%

Source ONS study last year.

Just presenting these figures for people's curiosity. The reason the figures grew so rapidly is not just to Blair but that the %s going to university from the late 80s and 90s had been high and the % going to university in say the early 60s miniscule. So as an illustration 2010 would include someone who was born in 1946 and went to university around 1964 before the huge boom in universities. Let's call it 5% going to university as it was somewhere in that ballpark. As they retire/go over 65 their cohort from that year is replaced by one in the 00s where 40-50% in the 00s has gone to university.

Note not only the massive rise in degrees but also the huge shrinking of those who have no qualifications. It's also interesting that the other + no qualifications even in 2010 still makes up nearly a quarter of the workforce.

Statistics, Statistics. If 50% of school leavers go to Uni, as Blair proposed, then that means that anyone of average intellect can get a degree. Is that 50% as educated as the graduates of the sixties, when degrees in media studies and surfing were not on the prospectus? I would guess that since 1999 there has also been a greater availability of "qualifications" for the more challenged. A certificate in being able to put one foot in front of the other is not going to get you a job.

 

[marinyork]

Statistics, Statistics. If 50% of school leavers go to Uni, as Blair proposed, then that means that anyone of average intellect can get a degree. Is that 50% as educated as the graduates of the sixties, when degrees in media studies and surfing were not on the prospectus? I would guess that since 1999 there has also been a greater availability of "qualifications" for the more challenged. A certificate in being able to put one foot in front of the other is not going to get you a job.

I didn't really want to get bogged down in this sort of silliness in a light thread in the cafe, however if you must...

I've already outlined a brief explanation of what you're telling me about in the post (see above). However you're wrong to single out Blair. Blair made little difference to the long term trends (apart from inflicting huge misery by introducing fees). The %s going to university in the late 80s and throughout the 90s were already high. The university expansion was as much the fault of Wilson, Thatcher and Major as it was Blair. Blair's many other faults - having 5 wars, introducing tuition fees and then ramping them up, doing very little with huge majorities and so on has little to do with the long term trends with university that would have pretty much happened anyway.

As for your idea about there being more qualifications for the challenged as you put it, this is true, however the framework that that was popularised under was John Major rather than Tony Blair.

 

[Linford]

Fair enough Linford. Same in many places. If I got a promotion I'd be paid a few pence more. As a member of the lost generation it's not so much the pay that concerns me or several other things one could mention , but the poor conditions and Groundhog Dayness of it all (I'm in my third proper 'first' job and each one gets successively worse).

I've done some college (night school), but never properly chased down the serious academic route. I can certainly see the value of some of it, but I see that the learning opportunity needs to go hand in glove with business. There are very few opportunities to use all the skills which a super duper qualification has to offer, and you end up becoming a jack of all trades in respect that the focus becomes an overview rather than a speciality - which can only really be learned on the job (and that is where the reward is)

 

[Fat B'stard]

From what i've read and heard the only country that is bucking the trend in Europe is Germany. They have always valued their manufacturing base making good products (generally but not always) and offering a job where Engineering and Manufacturing thats not looked down upon by people.

However the rot in the UK really started 40 years ago with bad management, bad working practices and bad goverment taking advantage of a gullible public. When I left school in 1980
I joined the Army and always wondered what my life would be like now had I stayed on and went into further education, I doubt it would be much different. Even back in 1980 there was very little work around. I remember coming home on leave in 1981 and most of my ex school mates were on the dole. A few had managed to get factory jobs and some had got an apprenticeship. A smaller number went to uni mainly studying maths, physics, ( Engineering) science or languages. In those days it was free, one of them was still studying at 30!!!!!

Blairs Govt sold this generation down the pan. You rarely get something for nothing and if you scraped into a poor uni because your A levels results were low, and then take a meaningless degree what do you expect. What little manufacturing was available was always looked down upon, people wearing suits were always perceived to be smarter (even my dad would say don't work in a factory get an office job!!)

If 60% of the degrees taken are pointless and there 100,000 students leaving uni every year thats a lot of wasted time not to mention the debt.

My job takes me into some of the most skilled industries in the world, mainly Aerospace / Defence / Energy and there are a lot of apprenticeships being created in these industries, the UK is a major player in the aerospace ( Aircraft, Formula 1, Satellite ) industry and this is the way school leavers should be looking to go. Start learning subjects that are difficult; Maths, Physics or Science etc these can used in both vocational and educational studies and will offer up real opportunities.

My advice

Go Vocational then take further educational through your comapny (and possible at their expense