Help with identifying Old Claud Butler

[Traighbum]

Hello,
I am a new member of the forum and hope that more knowledgeable members can assist in identifying/aging my old Claud Butler.
Frame is lugless,# 841852 finished in non metallic red, metal Head Tube badge. with CB, over entwined Olympic rings and London England at the bottom, seat tube length is 22" and an oiler is installed over the bottom bracket.
Decals on the Seat Tube are a two sets of bands which echo the colours of the Olympic rings, with a Claud Butler transfer, almost identical to the Head tube metal version. Claud Butler appears in Script on both sides of the down tube in gold outlined in black
Wheels are 26" x 1.25", alloy rims with Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub to rear. 40 spoke rear, 32 spoke front.
The only brazed on lugs or pegs, are on the down tube, for a 15" or 16" pump., no lugs for cable or gear control levers.?
Very slim tapered seat tubes with scalloped tops and vertical drop out lug to lower end.
Front forks have a brazed on lamp lug to off side.
Side pull Ballila/C.B.brakes with alloy calipers, Ballila in nice script on calipers.
Most grateful for any input on this
Colin

 

[raleighnut]

The SA hub will have a date on it, 40/32 spoke suggests late 60s - early 70s

 

[Illaveago]

Hi and welcome. I think you need someone with some experience of Claud Butlers and they may ask for a picture of your cycle. All I know is that they became part of Holdsworth. Good luck.

 

[Traighbum]

Thanks for the initial feedback. My own internet research leads me to think it might be earlier, late 1940's or early 1950's
Some images attached to help

 

[User42423]

Hi. In my limited experience of dealing with C-B's, part of the frame number is usually the year of build. I would guess 52 would be the year of build. You state a lugless frame. Sounds like the Olympic model. Please don't hold me to this though

 

[User42423]

Me again. You might like to visit this website, & compare machines listed> www.classiclightweights.co.uk
The Jubilee model is lugless.

 

[User42423]

Thanks for the initial feedback. My own internet research leads me to think it might be earlier, late 1940's or early 1950's
Some images attached to help

Although these might not be of any use to you, I though you'd like to see them. First page is from the 1948 C-B catalogue. 2nd page shows Jubilee model of 1952.

.

 

[Traighbum]

Thanks for your input cycling mad.
The design features 7 and 13 from the "Jubilee" model are certainly correct.
My bike has 26" wheels, not 27", could these have been changed? I do not have a chromed fork crown, nor the brazed on leads, stops and bosses referred to in the specification and in the illustration.
Also the "Jubilee sports an 18" pump, my pump pegs are 15" or 16" depending on how you measure between them.
The bike is certainly very light, even with the non original saddle,chainset, pedals etc.
Colin

 

[lukAs98]

Lovely frame! If you ever consider selling give me a shout

 

[Traighbum]

I have no plans to sell the bike, mainly to establish exactly what it is and therefore, how much to spend on it.
A few more detail images, in case they might help
Colin

 

[raleighnut]

Having seen some piccies it could well be a 52 and going by clearances shown the 26" wheels look the 'right' size, a custom build maybe rather than an 'off the peg' frame.
Looks in nice nick though.

 

[Traighbum]

Many thanks for your thoughts "Raleighnut", if I ever discover for certain what it is, I will of course post the result
Colin

 

[Gaben]

Hi Colin,

Old thread I reckon, and you may already have found a proper answer elsewhere... notwithstanding that, your bike is an example of the 1948 International Club model (and in fact was made in April).

Serial numbers on C.B. bikes manufactured in the forties (and before) used to begin with the year (one digit) followed by the month (one or two digits, respectively). The remaining digits were representing the actual serial number within the year. That had changed from 1951, though, where serial numbers were stamped in two rows into the BB shell with digits in the second row were indicating YYM, or YYMM, respectively. (The first row was the actual serial number within the year.)
Your bike is "one of the first welded models" as was put for fillet brazed models in the C.B. catalogues, the long protruding axle retainer on the Osgear-like (in fact C.B. Continental) rear ends were featured on C.B. bikes in 1948 and before. Those rear ends alone exclude any later year of manufacturing...
The C.B. branded (Italian) Balilla brakes are indeed rare and as such should be considered added value to your bike. The same applies to the alloy rims which very much look like Conloys (instead of the then common steel Endricks). The 26 1 1/4 rims were stock size for the model (International) and the year(s), though.

Hope that helps!
Gabor

 

[papa D]

Hi Colin,

Old thread I reckon, and you may already have found a proper answer elsewhere... notwithstanding that, your bike is an example of the 1948 International Club model (and in fact was made in April).

Serial numbers on C.B. bikes manufactured in the forties (and before) used to begin with the year (one digit) followed by the month (one or two digits, respectively). The remaining digits were representing the actual serial number within the year. That had changed from 1951, though, where serial numbers were stamped in two rows into the BB shell with digits in the second row were indicating YYM, or YYMM, respectively. (The first row was the actual serial number within the year.)
Your bike is "one of the first welded models" as was put for fillet brazed models in the C.B. catalogues, the long protruding axle retainer on the Osgear-like (in fact C.B. Continental) rear ends were featured on C.B. bikes in 1948 and before. Those rear ends alone exclude any later year of manufacturing...
The C.B. branded (Italian) Balilla brakes are indeed rare and as such should be considered added value to your bike. The same applies to the alloy rims which very much look like Conloys (instead of the then common steel Endricks). The 26 1 1/4 rims were stock size for the model (International) and the year(s), though.

Hope that helps!
Gabor

Hi Gabor
I've been trying to find out the date of my dad's old CB and came across your post. Is what you say above definitive ?
The serial no. on the BB is 547
532 so can I assume it was made in Febuary 1953 ?
Thanks