How to go about buying a bike for hilly country lanes and sensible off-road?

[steveha]

If I lived in Stroud, where most roads in the vicinity are either massively slow or massively fast, there's no way I'd consider restricting myself to just one chainring, except at gunpoint.

Certainly a lot of the roads are steep which needs a low gear to get up. I'm not going to pedal down those hills as I'll be too busy with the brake levers :-) There's quite a few long level/gently sloping roads in the valleys or on the top of the Cotswolds where a high gear might increase my maximum speed. Don't think I care :-)

With the current 2x5 setup I have 8 usable distinct gears from 36-91". I occasionally wish I had an extra high gear so my proposed 1x11 setup gives me a top of around 100". I definitely need an extra couple of gears at the bottom and plan on 33, 28 and 24". Sometimes, on the few flat roads around here, I am slightly irritated by not being able to find exactly the right mid-range gear. I have one gap that is 17% but on the proposed 1x11, it's 13%

A crazy idea occurs to me - have a wide 11 speed cassette and two chainrings with about 6% difference. Most of the time, I would ignore the front derailleur - just use it for fine tuning when I really wanted a gear in between

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

For the terrain the OP lives in, I would not ride anything but a triple designed for loaded touring on. Stroud is hilly as f***.
Why not fit a 48/38/28 triple chainset to the Mercian, and shoehorn a six speed 700c rear wheel into the stays? As the bike is steel, the small extra width of a six speed over a five won't be a problem. My triple-equipped hybrids give me a theoretical 18 (but 16 in reality) ratios between 28" and 93". I can always find a suitable gear no matter what.

 

[steveha]

Why not fit a 48/38/28 triple chainset to the Mercian

I said I disliked double clangers, so suggesting a triple is a nice try :-)

Seriously, I would consider a multi-clanger coupled with the Shimano DI2 which I understand to take away all the nastiness but it's horrendously expensive. Also, upgrading a 40+ year old bike to 2020 standards is for someone else :-)

 

[biggs682]

@steveha welcome on board .

My first suggestion would be to rebuild your existing Mercian to suit but I understand that you don't want to do that.

Next suggestion is to have Mercian or such build to your spec or buy of the peg ?

Loads of suitable bikes around so go visiting local bike shops and see what they offer.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I don't find much need to change chainrings, TBH. Generally if I'm on flattish terrain I'll start the ride in the big ring and mostly stay in it. If I'm riding on gravel or in woods, then I'm usually on the middle ring by default, because I'm not going to be going fast enough to run out of gears anyway. In any case, what's the difference between operating a gear shifter at the back to one on the front? Sometimes moving one ring on the front saves needing to change by two ratios on the back. I sometimes use this trick when going up short gradients if there's a red traffic light at the top. Gives me a low starting gear, and then I'll change back up the to the previous ring at the front once I'm underway again.
I'll be the first one to admit that doing double-changes involving a simultaneous front and rear ratio change can be really tiresome, but mostly this can be avoided easily so long as you have a reasonable choice of gears.
Not sure I view 2020 bike standards as anything to aim for, TBH. Engineering is generally crap. press-fit BB's that creak and have frequent poor bearing tolerance issues, headset bearings that don't last, internally routed cables that rattle and are more awkward to replace, narrow chains and cogs that won't last as long as regular dimensioned stuff and are way way more expensive to replace. If you are used to the idea of being able to get a new freewheel and chain for a tenner each you are going to be in for a nasty shock if you start running modern 11 speed stuff, especially in dirty dusty conditions where the service life will be even shorter than riding on clean roads.

 

[steveha]

I'll be the first one to admit that doing double-changes involving a simultaneous front and rear ratio change can be really tiresome, but mostly this can be avoided easily so long as you have a reasonable choice of gears.

That's the main thing. Here's the mid-range of the 2x5 setup on the Mercian

Front

Rear

inches

32​	16​	54​
(32)​	(14)​	(62)​
(47)​	(24)​	(53)​
47​	21​	60​

So, going up from 54" to 60" is quite awkward, especially using non-indexed levers shifters. (The bracketed ratios do work but the chain doesn't really like being bent that much)

Not sure I view 2020 bike standards as anything to aim for, TBH. Engineering is generally crap. press-fit BB's that creak and have frequent poor bearing tolerance issues, headset bearings that don't last, internally routed cables that rattle and are more awkward to replace, narrow chains and cogs that won't last as long as regular dimensioned stuff and are way way more expensive to replace.

Yeah, I'm keen adopt just what's good from 2020. It seems that lights, brakes, wheels and tyres are definitely better. Poor bearings were not unknown 40 years ago - I used to wear out pedals every couple of years until I splashed out £19 on Campag Record - which are still on the bike!

If you are used to the idea of being able to get a new freewheel and chain for a tenner each you are going to be in for a nasty shock if you start running modern 11 speed stuff, especially in dirty dusty conditions where the service life will be even shorter than riding on clean roads.

Yeah, I notice that complete bikes (EG: Dawes Super Galaxy) have gone up about 4 times but parts are about x 10!

 

[steveha]

Next suggestion is to have Mercian or such build to your spec or buy of the peg ?

Thanks. The days are long gone when I knew enough to specify all the parts (and assemble the bike). I am thinking that I need to find something close to what I want and have a few things changed

 

[mythste]

A few points from experience, take all, some, or none of them on board.

1. I still believe a 2x system is most effective for mainly on road riding. I have 1x systems on 2 mountain bikes, 1 is 1x11 and one is 1x12. They're awesome, but they do leave gaps in the mid range for getting the cadence right. If I was to have to deal with this over a 50+ mile road ride where rhythm is key I would be most annoyed. If I went for a smaller "cluster" I would lose the range, which I love. For mtb, I'm happy with that, I wouldn't be happy with that on the road or gravel.

2. I'm faster on a heavier bike that is more comfortable on any ride over 50 miles. (of course there are limitations to this, but 2 or 3kg each way makes sod all difference unless you're a featherweight).

3. Go for the bike with the most possible clearance. Over the years I've gone from 25c, to 28, to 32, to 35, and I've now 37 which is unfortunately at the limit of what my fork will take (With mudguards). I would love the option to put wider rubber on. The speed penalty is negligible and the comfort bonus tangible. Plus the tyres are easier to change in case of P-words.

4. You've got to want to ride it. Get the one that speaks to you because it's pretty.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

That's the main thing. Here's the mid-range of the 2x5 setup on the Mercian

Front

Rear

inches

32​	16​	54​
(32)​	(14)​	(62)​
(47)​	(24)​	(53)​
47​	21​	60​

So, going up from 54" to 60" is quite awkward, especially using non-indexed levers shifters. (The bracketed ratios do work but the chain doesn't really like being bent that much)

This is my standard triple set up using 3 x 6 gearing on 700c/27" wheels. Useable gears in bold, undesirable extreme chainlines not bold:-

.......Chainring..28T...............38T..................48T
Gear Inch..............................................................
27".............(1) 28T...............N/A.................. N/A
32"..............(2) 24T..............N/A................... N/A
36"..............(3) 21T..............N/A....................N/A
37"..................N/A..............(1) 28T............... N/A
42"..............(4) 18T..............N/A....................N/A
43" ..................N/A ..............(2) 24T................N/A
46" ...................N/A.................N/A ...............(1) 28T
47"..............(5) 16T................N/A...................N/A
49".................. N/A..............,(3) 21T................N/A
54"...............(6) 14T.................N/A...............(2) 24T
57"..................N/A.................(4) 18T...............N/A
62"...................N/A..................N/A...............(3) 21T
64"...................N/A................(5) 16T ...............N/A
72"...................N/A .................N/A................(4) 18T
73"..................N/A ................(6) 14T...............N/A
81"...................N/A..................N/A................(5) 16T
93"...................N/A..................N/A................(6) 14T.