How to start planning?......

[pepecat]

I've had the germ of an idea to possibly, maybe do a mad long cycle in two / two and a half years time (end of PhD celebration). Initially I was thinking of going to Greece - possibly taking bike and cycling round there a bit....
Now i'm thinking (and it might be a silly idea) of cycling to Greece. I reckon down through France and Italy and then ferry across, rather than across through Germany and down via Eastern Europe (I know what the roads in Romania are like!!).

Question is - how the heck do you start planning something like this? Are there any books about cycling through Italy and France? I guess there are...... Does one work out a route first, and then look for places to stay, or find places to stay first and then plan route around that? I have NEVER done anything like this before (or even thought of doing something like this) - I don't even have a touring bike, so I'd have to get one, obviously, but that's in the future. Are there ways of doing something like this as cheaply as possible? I'm happy to camp where possible, but being a single female (unless I can persuade the o/h to come too.....) personal safety is something to consider as well.
Any tips on how to start planning something like this would be great - even things like roads to go for / avoid; I know to avoid N roads in France, but are D roads ok?

See, i know nothing!!

 

[vernon]

I'd start by looking at the weather charts and identify when it's very hot and when it's very cold then plan your ride to avoid these extremities of temperature.

I have it on good authority that Easter is not a good time to cycle in Greece and Macedonia because it's uncomfortably cold. Summer on the other hand is blisteringly hot.

My approach to a long tour is to take a tent then accommodation is permanently sorted and total flexibility is afforded to any travel plans. You need to have some idea of what your daily mileage will be and start playing with applications like:

www.mapmyride.com

And see where your daily mileage gets you. You also get in idea of the route profile and where the significant hills are.

I don't microplan. This summer I am catching a coach to Beaune on 30th July. I get off it on 31st July then on 17th August get on a train to Amsterdam from Passau changing at Munich. A day or two later i'll get a ferry to Newcastle. What happens between alighting at Beaune and leaving Passau is, at the moment, a mystery.

Getting back to oyur plans. Try some local-ish weekend rides to get a taste of touring. Sometimes the dream and the reality are not congruent.

 

[coffeejo]

I'm in the no-nothing camp as well but it *sounds* like a fantastic idea.

A trial run seems sensible, especially if you rough it as much as possible.

Good luck from not-at-all-jealous-in-Somerset!

 

[hubbike]

How to plan?

1. save money. you've got loads of time so put a bit away each month so you have a comfortable amount. work out how many days you think it might take you (be generous) and work out a rough daily budget (generously). Multiply the two.

2. Work out what you are interested in seeing. Are you into beaches, culture, mountains, nice countryside? there are a ton of interesting things to see in France, Italy and Greece you just have to choose which you want to see and plot a course through them.

3. camping and cooking on a stove will save you money and in campsites in europe I would say that a lone woman would be okay. wild camping you will also probably be fine. just be discrete. other options are couchsurfing and warmshowers. hotels and hostels cost more and might limit where you go, but if you rely on them entirely you wont need so much stuff.

4. There is a lovely book called 'cycling in europe' by nicolas crane. think it might be out of print but check amazon/ebay...but there isn't much a cycling specific guide book will help you with. just use a lonely planet or wikitravel.org and get a good set of maps.

5. persude the over half to come. you might enjoy it more together. especially on those lonely nights in the tent...

6. generally I am inclined to leave my options flexible and plan as I go along.


you could take a route through croatia and montenegro which I have heard are interesting but I have no experience.

there are several routes to take down through france...maybe look for the long distance cycle paths.

best of luck

 

[Dayvo]

I'd suggest that you find out when you want to go (bearing in mind what Vernon said about extreme temperatures if you decided to be self-sufficient).

Then find a route that is suited to you; i.e. if you like mountains, fully-loaded (and who does!) then go for it, otherwise you could go straight down through the centre of France and do a left at Orange and follow the flatish coastal road to Italy and down there.

80-120 km a day would be well within your limits if you were in reasonable shape (although you WILL develop excellent cycling fitness en route) and conditions were in your favour.

Pack what you need, not what you want. Divide your panniers into sections: kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, garage, plus some first aid and maps/books/computer/camera. Enough clothing to be clean (cycling) every day and decent but simple clothing for evenings/rest days. Washing clothes at the end of the day en route shouldn't a problem.

Take good quality tent/mattress/sleeping bag as you should NOT sacrifice comfort (note: NOT luxury) for cost, as a good night's sleep is invaluable!

 

[pepecat]

Thanks for the tips so far! I'll check out the book of Nicholas Crane's - sounds interesting.
I'm a bit of a hill dodger anyway, and with panniers would like to avoid them as much as possible - I had wondered if it was possible to nip through the Alps without too many big hills, but on reflection this morning I now think down the flat centre of France and then along the coast to Genova ish way and see what happens from there! Plus, I'd like to see St Tropez, Antibes, Nice, Cannes etc, so that would work nicely!

I'm normally a 'travel light' cyclist cos i do road biking, so with the added weight of bike + panniers I reckon 40-50 miles a day would be do-able - may increase as I get fitter, but who knows! I've camped before and it's amazing what you can do without when you need to. Just shows how little we actually need in life. It's not like i'll be in the back end of beyond anway, so if I did need anything, I'm sure I could buy en route, or post stuff home that I didn't need any more.

I would LOVE the o/h to come too, but she's only just got her first bike since she was 13 (bought it on Thurs) and she's really not a confident cyclist yet, but enjoys it..... maybe if I plant the idea now, it'll sink in and take root and she'll be up for it.

 

[vernon]

It's possible to do Channel to the Med without any significant climbs - I speak as a porky !30kg rider. I'll dig out a route that covers Calais to St Tropez. I did most of it but headed towards Montpelier after heading to Arles and Avignon after leaving Aix en Provence.. It's not a bad route with nice things to see and it does go through some great wine regions.

CALAIS
Wissant
Marquise
Desyres
Beussent
Montreuil
Abbeville
Yzeux
Amiens
Roye
Noyon
Blerancourt
Vienne (West Bank)
Tournon
Valence
Le Teil
Viviers
Pierrelatte
Orange
Borges
Caumont-s-Durance
Senas
Aix-en-Provence
St Maximin
Brignoles
Le Cannet des Maures
La Garde Freinet
Grimaud
ST TROPEZ

I can not take the credit for the route. It was prepared elsewhere. I didn't stick to it entirely but it provided a highlighted streak through a couple of pages of a motoring atlas that I tore out and used for navigation.

 

[andym]

You might get to the Med without any significant hills but I'd be sceptical about getting through Italy. Get past the Alps and you then have the Appenines.

I think step one would be some shorter tours closer to home. That will probably give you a reasonable idea of what you need/want to know, and what style of touring.

The internet has made research very easy: eg it's easy to research hostels/campsites, weather etc etc.

My advice would be to do research in terms of interesting places, nice places to see, great scenery but avoid overscheduling. Personally I'd be wary of setting a target and attaching too much importance to it. My approach would simply be to head through France and Italy and see where you end up.

 

[pepecat]

Gosh, thanks Vernon! That's really helpful. I'll have a look at it on the map and see how it looks.
I realise once I get to Italy things might start to get hilly - maybe I'll just end up ambling round France for a while and go to Greece another time!

I think doing something shorter here first is definitely the way to go....which means another two wheeled machine in the garage as I'd have to get a tourer....... Not sure my finances (or the o/h's patience) will stretch that far at the moment, so I'll have to start saving I think....

 

[vernon]

Gosh, thanks Vernon! That's really helpful. I'll have a look at it on the map and see how it looks.
I realise once I get to Italy things might start to get hilly - maybe I'll just end up ambling round France for a while and go to Greece another time!

I think doing something shorter here first is definitely the way to go....which means another two wheeled machine in the garage as I'd have to get a tourer....... Not sure my finances (or the o/h's patience) will stretch that far at the moment, so I'll have to start saving I think....

If you pootle around in Provence and the Carmargue there's lots to see and do. There's quality vineyards, roman relics, great scenery, the legendary Mt Ventoux

 

[psmiffy]

I think before you do all of the above you need to work out what sort of tourist you are - Tortoise or a Hare - Myself I am a bit of a briskish tortoise - I carry my home on my bike and just keep plodding on in a spirit of naive exploration - somehow or other managing to carry more than the weight police would seem to approve of but still managing to notch up the thousands of km.

So how do you decide - get it sorted before the big trip - to start off the best way is to get all the kit together you think you need (if you have not got any kit beg, steal or borrow a reasonable facsimile of it) and pile it on a large bed (not the bicycle of course) - examine each item in turn and decide what benefit it will be to you and how much space it will take up (do not worry about weight at this stage -on a bike you are more limited by the volume of stuff you can take) - a lot of stuff will be "in case of" - but whilst I completed a 3500km tour without taking my waterproofs out of their bag - common sense says that it would probably not be a good idea to discard them for the next trip - having decided on the "necessities" load it all on a bike and go on a short tour - if it is manageable and your modus operandi (sleeping, eating - having spent relatively long periods on the road I personally find that It is important for me to be, dry, warm and well fed at the end of each day - and therefore my priorities are to carry the kit that I need to achieve that - as to effort - Im a plodder - I get there) is agreeable then you have a starting point - if not, then work out how/what you need to change - what to add - what to delete - what to replace - a change of bike? tent, sleeping bag panniers, racks trailers???? - you have two and a half years - plenty of time for a few iterations

As to the trip itself - Cycling to Greece is not only not silly - It is a brilliant idea

As to planning the route - Its a minor point - Greece is to the South- So cycle south - It sounds like you might be reasonably bright - ie you know that the world does not end at the boundary of the Birmingham conurbation - so get a map of Europe and draw a line through the places that you have always fancied visiting but never have have - join the dots and use that as a starting point for your trip - amend as you fancy enroute

If it was me personally in your situation - major tour - maybe will not have the opportunity to be able to have the time to a big tour again before you are old and incapable - Its got to be through the Alps say to Nice or thereabouts - Warm up with a toddle down through UK and on to - say Annecy or Montgeneve - by that time you should have a few miles in your legs - If you take your time the alps are no big deal to cycle over - along the med coast - get some beach time in - toddle through the historic bits of Tuscany - down the west coast of Italy through Rome - or maybe a little diversion though Corsica/Sardinia - round the bottom of Sicily and then Brindisi for the boat

Greece - down the west coast and around the south of the Pelopanese - options then are straight to Athens - or a few Islands and then Athens - then a plane home - or if you are really ambitious and can start early enough maybe north along the east coast and Danube Rhine home

If it was me in my situation - having already been through the alps a few times - Ie my next major tour will be Danube Rhine - Greece - Pelopanese - Albania or Scilily - Croatia or Corsica/Sardinia - Circumnavigate Spain/Portugal and maybe home

You are only limited by time (unfortunately), funds (by necessity) and ambition

Security - It is tricky - I am a uglyish middle aged geezer - nobody has ever bothered me and Ive done about 50k km without incident - Ive met a number of lone women on the road in some fairly lonely places - on the occasions that Ive discussed it with them none of them had ever had a problem - my attitude and as I say, its tricky because I am a bloke - is that I am optimistic but careful - if you can persuade the o/h then that would make life easier

 

[andym]

No cycling to Greece isn't a silly idea but it does depend a bit on how much time you have: if you have time to relax and enjoy the trip then that's one type of experience, if on the other hand you have limited time and you end up racing the clock then it's another type of experience. I know that some people enjoy a challenge, but on the other hand working life is full of objectives and deadlines so do you need more?

I agree with what psmiffy says about different styles of touring: personally I'm definitely a snail: I've spent the last four weeks or so exploring Umbria (OK at least part of that has been spent idling around as I'm doing now). I could probably have simply passed through in a couple of days but I'd have missed a lot (including some magnificent scenery after climbing those hills/mountains). I think there's a lot to be said for taking the time to enjoy where you are rather than focusing on where you need to be next.

 

[Jimmy Doug]

What a superb idea! I think you should go for it! However, two remarks spring to my mind. First, I agree with andym that cycling through Italy might not be the easiest or best route. Last year, I cycled from Nice to Sicily and I found Italy not the best tourist destination. I think it'd be a great place to combine train and cycling - so you base yourself in a town, explore the area, and then take the train to the next town. I found that actually crossing Italy meant having to choose between cycling through the centre, which would be a huge challenge given the nature of the terrain, and cycling along the coast, which means cycling on some very cycling-unfriendly roads. Don't get me wrong: I loved Italy, the Garganno for example was superb, but I wouldn't cycle through it from north to south again (but I have to say that I really loved cycling from Nice to Bologne). If you do decide to do this, be careful around Ancona - it's very difficult to negotiate on a bike and it's easy to find yourself on a motorway.
My other point is that you said you've never done anything like this before. Can I suggest you do something on a small scale first? Perhaps you could cycle through France, or to Scotland or something? You'd learn the ropes the easy way, and you'd be able to do it without too much financial investment. If you enjoy it, then go for your mega cycle ride to Greece!
About French roads. D roads are usually great for cycling - I'd definetely use them rather than the N roads which can be very busy at times.

Good luck!

 

[pepecat]

I think I'll probably be more of a tortoise than a hare. Though I guess if the scenery is not all that interesting (fields of wheat in the middle of France) I would probably go a bit quicker through there than somewhere like the South of France or the Alps, which i'm much more interested in seeing. I could spend two weeks fiddling about a v small area if it was one that interested me!

You're right psmiffy, I think this is THE opportunity to do something like this before I get creakier and have less motivation. I"ll be 37 by the time I finish the PhD, and won't be able to take a 'gap couple of months or so' to do something like this again because (I hope) I'll be working in something academic or related. I don't envisage time being an issue, but money will be.....which of course dictates the amount of time one can spend away......

I think for an inital foray into touring, I'm going to cycle to my parents (they're in Devon) and catch the train back up to Brum. It's flattish, and will give me a sense if I hate it or not, even though it'll only be three or four days!

Need a new bike though........

 

[Jimmy Doug]

There's hardly anywhere in France that you'll just rush through, north or south! It's why so many people love cycling here! I live in the middle of one of those wheat fields, and even here the cycling is lovely! As for touring bikes, you don't need to spend a fortune. I have one of these. I love this bike, and it's more than adequate for touring. I think it's better to spend less money on your bike (who cares what the frame is made out of? Aluminium is light - great for mountains!) so you can spend more on the equipment where quality usually does go hand-in-hand with price. Get decent paniers, for example, and a good light-weight tent that'll stand up to any weather and yet be easy to carry. The only thing I would say about my bike is that the original saddle is rubbish (best replace it with something that you'll be able to sit on for several hours a day) and it's a good idea to buy a kickstand.