How will cyclists ever get the respect of road users?

[therams]

<Rant>

I am a pretty considerate cyclist. I don't jump red lights, I don't do anything intentionally dangerous or irritating. I try to say thank you when another road user does something considerate. I also guess most of the people reading this are the same.

However, on my commute this morning, while waiting at every red light at least one cyclist went past me. Sometimes it was safe to do so, sometimes it was just stupid and dangerous. I saw people jumping up kerbs to miss queues of traffic.

I see this everyday.

People like this just give ALL cyclists a bad reputation. To be honest I can see why the majority of road users think cyclists are dangerous idiots who don't pay road tax. If you drive in Manchester, over half the cyclists drivers see are dangerous idiots who don't pay road tax.

These are the cyclists drivers remember, not people like you and me. I don't think this will ever change.

</Rant>

 

[janm399]

I too see sometimes pointless, sometimes dangerous RLJ on my commute every day. Sometimes I make the point of tutting and saying "Jumping read ligts?". The responses fall into two broad categories: aggression (mind your own business, f*** off and such like) and oblivion (but I thought everyone does it, I'm only on bike).

There's hope for the ignoramooses; you can only hope that Mr. Darwin's ready for the aggressive ones

 

[John the Monkey]

It's a flawed premise.

Cyclists are treated badly by some drivers because;

1) There's no social stigma to it, and in some cases, it's considered to be okay, in a jokey blokey sort of a way.

2) There's bugger all penalty for being a t*** in a car 99% of the time, and even when there is one, punishment tends towards the laughable (unless the driver happens to be drunk).

Which isn't to say that cyclists shouldn't obey traffic law, they should, but if everyone of us did, (some) drivers would find another rationalisation for taking their anger at the pointlessness of their daily commute out on us. (imo)

 

[therams]

It's a flawed premise.

Cyclists are treated badly by some drivers because;

1) There's no social stigma to it, and in some cases, it's considered to be okay, in a jokey blokey sort of a way.

2) There's bugger all penalty for being a t*** in a car 99% of the time, and even when there is one, punishment tends towards the laughable (unless the driver happens to be drunk).

Which isn't to say that cyclists shouldn't obey traffic law, they should, but if everyone of us did, (some) drivers would find another rationalisation for taking their anger at the pointlessness of their daily commute out on us. (imo)

I agree, but I would add

3) Because a lot of cyclists jump read lights, ride on the pavement and behave in a dangerous / discourteous manner.

 

[fossyant]

Students are back.....

 

[therams]

Students are back.....

Yes, I put most of this mornings behaviour down to students, but didn't really want to get into that discussion...

 

[Dan B]

Most drivers overestimate their own skill. It's not such a leap of logic, therefore, to expect that they they regard the majority of other road users as dangerous idiots irrespective of the vehicles they are inside or astride. Think about the stereotypes of taxi/minicab drivers, BMW drivers, 4x4 drivers, school run mums, motorcyclists, etc etc.

I'm not condoning dangerous behaviour by cyclists, simply on the grounds that it's dangerous (duh). But I really don't care too much any more about the impression it may be making on car drivers, because if they didn't have RLJ as a stick to beat us with they'd only find something else to complain about anyway - read the average anti-cyclist rant in any newspaper and notice proportionally how little space is devoted to actual illegality and how much to whatever (lycra, two-abreast, smugness, not paying road tax(sic), filtering) the author finds personally offensive because he's unable or inadequate to do it himself.

 

[John the Monkey]

3) Because a lot of cyclists jump read lights, ride on the pavement and behave in a dangerous / discourteous manner.

If this was the source of the problem, places like the Netherlands (from what I hear of riding style etc) would be a bloodbath.

The "you all jump red lights, therefore I can run you over" is a post-hoc rationalisation, not a cause (again, imo).

"The highways are crowded with people who drive as if their sole purpose in getting behind the wheel is to avenge every wrong ever done them by man, beast, or fate. The only thing that keeps them in line is their own fear of death, jail and lawsuits...which are much less likely if they can find a motorcycle to challenge instead of another two thousand pound car or a concrete abutment.

A motorcyclist has to drive [sic] as though everybody else on the road is out to kill him. A few of them are, and many of those who aren't are just as dangerous - because the only thing that can alter their careless, ingrained driving habits is a threat of punishment, either legal or physical, and there is nothing about a motorcycle to threaten any man in a car."

Hunter S. Thompson, in "Hell's Angels" (writing about Motorcycles, but I think the point holds for pedal cycles)


See also this post by Cab;

Its rather like racism 35 years ago. Its respectable to hate cyclists. And it has to change. And we don't change it by giving any credibility to the insane, out of proportion, snivelling criticisms from motorists.

 

[Dan B]

And while I'm ranting; anyone else have a problem with the usual description of pavement cyclists as "lycra louts"? Have you ever seen a pavement cyclist wearing lycra? I can't remember the last time I did.

 

[mr_cellophane]

Confession

I ride of the pavement for a short while at the moment as there is roadworks at at main junction in the Bus/cycle lane and I consider it safer (at present) to hop on the pavement rather than move out into the traffic going straight ahead.
As soon as the works are finished I will be back on the road.

 

[therams]

I guess my post has raised two points, for me anyway...

1) Why drivers hate cyclists; This is for more complex than "because they jump red lights". Its a topic that I had not really thought about before.

2) Why I hate being passed by cyclists at red lights; I don't know why but it makes me mad, at least it did today. Its the "look I am too cool for your rules" attitude that really gets me.

I guess I just need to keep doing what I am doing, try to take the moral high ground and really appreciate it when I get a positive response from drivers.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

I've (in the main) stopped saying things like "It's still red, muppet!" as it's pointless and can provoke the imbeciles...

I do, however, visibly shake my head at these tossers to let nearby car drivers know we're not all like that and that there are those on a bike who *do* obey the rules so they don't tar us all with the same brush.

Whether it has any effect or not though, who can say?

 

[Maz]

I reckon the majority of drivers are largely indifferent to cyclists whether on road or pavement. They probably don't have strong views about cyclists and are just going about their way getting from A to B like the rest of us.

 

[MacB]

Bad drivers don't just hate cyclists, they actually hate all other road users and probably have some sort of internal sliding scale based on their personal prejudices. I even suspect that a lot of bad drivers really just dislike driving. They're not comfortable with the level of concentration required, they frequently don't leave enough time for a journey and anything out of the ordinary upsets them.

I've seen comments recently on how everyone should have to sit some form of road awareness test, from every perspective. Ignoring logistical issues I can see the sense in this. I really had no idea of what faces a cyclist until I started it myself. But I thought I did, and that may be a big part of the problem. I'm starting to understand problems and limitations for other road users as well, such as lorries etc.

Groups of road users are often referred to in terms of gross generalitites, ie all cyclists RLJ, all buses cut you up, cars pass too close etc. So far the only one that has held true for me is around taxi drivers. They're running at 100% for giving me less room/consideration than is appropriate.

 

[swee'pea99]

How will cyclists ever get the respect of road users?

They won't. End of. Move along now, nothing to see here...