Hydrogen power

[Profpointy]

For urban buses at least, rather than intercity coaches, it's very hard to see a case for hydrogen.

When I was last in Gothenburg I came across this bus charging station. You can easily imagine a few at route terminus etc could significantly reduce the range required and therefore cost of batteries for buses, which are perfect for batteries given the stop/start nature and regen braking.

View attachment 721647

Gothenburg public transport is quick, cheap, easy and convenient.

With town buses it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to have trolley bus cables installed on key routes with battery backup for going further off piste. The battery capacity need not be more than a few tens of miles as the bus would be back on the grid and charging for much of its route

 

[the snail]

In France, Pau scrapped it's H buses, and Montpelier cancelled their plans in favour of electric buses, , because H is is just too expensive. Possibly for long distance, inductive charging through the road surface might be feasible

 

[roubaixtuesday]

With town buses it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to have trolley bus cables installed on key routes with battery backup for going further off piste. The battery capacity need not be more than a few tens of miles as the bus would be back on the grid and charging for much of its route

If you have rapid charging at the sort of stations I posted the pic at, I can't see any case for continuous trolley bus wire infrastructure - just expensive and inconvenient?

 

[Profpointy]

If you have rapid charging at the sort of stations I posted the pic at, I can't see any case for continuous trolley bus wire infrastructure - just expensive and inconvenient?

I guess it depends how rapid "rapid" is I suppose. Someone would have to work out the trade-off between smaller capacity, hence lighter and cheaper batteries, time off duty to charge, vs having (at least some) trolley bus wires on most used routes and charge on the go.

I'd hazard a guess that putting in trolley bus wires wouldn't be a heap more expensive than some of the fully dedicated bus lanes being put in and you'd also save on battery capacity needs, and maybe bus downtime if they can't run all day on a charge

 

[icowden]

I'd hazard a guess that putting in trolley bus wires wouldn't be a heap more expensive than some of the fully dedicated bus lanes being put in and you'd also save on battery capacity needs, and maybe bus downtime if they can't run all day on a charge

You say that, but the Edinburgh trams cost a billion. Never let it be said that we can't do infrastructure cheaply...

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I guess it depends how rapid "rapid" is I suppose. Someone would have to work out the trade-off between smaller capacity, hence lighter and cheaper batteries, time off duty to charge, vs having (at least some) trolley bus wires on most used routes and charge on the go.

I'd hazard a guess that putting in trolley bus wires wouldn't be a heap more expensive than some of the fully dedicated bus lanes being put in and you'd also save on battery capacity needs, and maybe bus downtime if they can't run all day on a charge

My logic was that cars charge at >>100mph, and I'd guess an average bus journey is <20mph. So you'd probably need an charge time ~10% of total, worst case. Doesn't seem very significant, compared to building miles of intrusive infrastructure on expensive real estate.

But this is just personal speculation for something requiring a proper engineering study to understand.

 

[Profpointy]

My logic was that cars charge at >>100mph, and I'd guess an average bus journey is <20mph. So you'd probably need an charge time ~10% of total, worst case. Doesn't seem very significant, compared to building miles of intrusive infrastructure on expensive real estate.

But this is just personal speculation for something requiring a proper engineering study to understand.

Not quite following your point there. Are you saying cara charge faster, or need to charge faster. Or buses need less lecci?

 

[Profpointy]

You say that, but the Edinburgh trams cost a billion. Never let it be said that we can't do infrastructure cheaply...

I remain skeptical about trams, appealing though they are, for that very reason. To pull a number put of my hat I'd guess (and it is a guess) a bus costs £100k to £200k whilst anything light rail costs a bomb.

And a basic bus lane costs a road gang with some paint, as opposed to major civil engineering

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Not quite following your point there. Are you saying cara charge faster, or need to charge faster. Or buses need less lecci?

I'm saying that I assumed both can charge at the same speed in miles range per hour of charging. That would presumably be quite a lot more kW for a bus.

But it's just an assumption from me, I've no data on it.

 

[Profpointy]

I'm saying that I assumed both can charge at the same speed in miles range per hour of charging. That would presumably be quite a lot more kW for a bus.

But it's just an assumption from me, I've no data on it.

Ah got it! Miles per hour sent me astray, but miles per hour does make sense now. I'd have thought the bus would get far less miles per time charging unless there's a hell of a cable, but there again, I guess it could have

A bit like the euro way of stating fuel economy is as a unit of area - which sounds crazy but isn't

 

[Tenkaykev]

A recent development in the USA:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...n-california-while-h2-heavy-trucking-expands/