injured knees... on dogs.

[Mile195]

Despite my best efforts to encourage him, my dog won't ride a bike so I thought I'd keep this out of the "health" section! However, I know lots of other members have dogs so perhaps someone has an opinion on this.

My dog has broken his cranial cruciate ligament (CCL). It's one half of a small pair of ligaments that keeps the upper and lower parts of his leg in the right place with respect to one another. When one breaks, it basically means the ends of the bones can slide over each other instead of being held in place.

He's been to the vet and had x-rays at great cost, so we know this is definitely the cause of a limp that he's suddenly developed.

Apparently there are two surgery options:

Tibial Tuberosity Advancement - where they re-shape the bone to redistribute the weight. works in 95% of cases. Cost with aftercare: at least £3800 (unless it doesn't work or has complications in which case it'll be more)

Lateral Suture Stabalisation - Where they basically sew the ligament back together. Not recommended for dogs over 20Kg. Lucas is 28Kg, although being a shar-pei he is not especially active. Cost: £1200.

No, he isn't insured (because the quote was extortionate, and barely covered anything that might actually go wrong) so we put £60 a month in a bank account for him for the last 3 years which we always thought should cover any vets bills at this stage in his life.

Obviously If I had the full £3800 just lying around, I'd spend it on him in a heartbeat, but I simply don't. So has anybody had the latter operation done on a dog over the recommended weight? Was it successful? Or has anyone else been recommended other treatments (surgical or otherwise) that actually work - apparently it's a common injury.

I've shopped around, but unfortunately vets practices seem to have this well sewn up and they all quote, miraculously, exactly the same price or thereabouts. I won't start any conspiracy theories here, but I note even the vets that "appear" independent all turn out to be part of much bigger corporate groups. anyway, that is what it is so I shan't rant!

Although he's limping a bit, he's not actually in pain it would seem. Still quite happy to go out for walks, and potters about the house in the usual way. Based on this, does he even need surgery? Or is it like me getting a "niggle" when I've been pushing too hard on the bike - nothing to go to the doctor for. Just something to be careful with.

Sorry for the essay of a post, but if anyone's got any thoughts on this they'd be greatly appreciated!

 

[vickster]

Try hydrotherapy? And a diet if he's overweight?

My brother's dog has had both her cruciates rebuilt (but in first 3 years of her life), luckily insured though.

They used http://www.hydrohounds.co.uk/ for rehab (indeed my sister in law worked there for a bit) (might not be too far from west Kent), other options available I'm sure

If you've got the savings pot, won't that cover most? Does the vet offer some sort of finance option to cover the rest?

You could pay to see a specialist and get a more definitive answer? And what's the long-term prognosis if not repaired (worsening arthritis for example as can happen in humans with unstable ligaments)

I guess only you can decide whether the dog's quality of life warrants the surgery or whether conservative measures (like hydro, weight loss, medication will suffice)

 

[Crackle]

All the people I know who've had dogs with CCL's have had the first one done. All of them have done really well after the op. Which doesn't help you I know. Most vets will discuss payment plans with you, they have to these days as they are the authors of their own rip-off prices.

 

[Levo-Lon]

If he's not in pain ..fine..
My daughter is a Vet .. they will charge a lot for the opp... as she says people don't seem to understand were like hospitals these days with very expensive machines ...and staff to pay..

A few years ago they just accepted the worst and put them to sleep..now we have all these choices...its yours to decide I'm affraid

 

[Mile195]

Thanks all for your replies so far. It sounds like the recommended op is indeed very likely to work. Although, my concern is also partly that even if I raise the money for it, it literally leaves nothing for the next thing that goes wrong.

I suppose a better question regarding the cheaper one, is if I were to do that, and it were to fail, how long would it generally buy? The thing is, he is a shar-pei. They rarely live beyond 10 years so at best he has 5 years left. If the cheap op often lasts that long (and as I say, he's a very inactive breed) then it might be better to do that, which leaves money in his pot for any age related things that will inevitably happen.

Even if I had the cheap op done twice (meaning it has to last only 2.5 years), it's still cheaper than TTL. If he has it done three times, the cost is roughly even, and effectively buys me longer to save for future operations. Not of course that I really want him to have to have three operations, but you see my thinking. Presumably as he becomes even less active with age, he becomes increasingly less likely to need it doing again as well.

 

[Levo-Lon]

As above..
My Border injured the cruciate..bloody impossibility to keep a 2 yr old terrier calm..

 

[Drago]

He's a handsome old feller. You got him insured now to cover any future injuries he may pick up?

 

[Levo-Lon]

My Border Terrier cost 20 quid a month when a pup in 04..they wanted 50quid a month in 2015.
it went up allarmingly after her 8th Birthday..so if i get another ill put 50 quid a month away and be realistic if its a silly bill..

tho i would insure for 2 years..to sort any young issues out..

 

[Piemaster]

Our mutt is just coming to the end of her rehabilitation after a knee op. Dunno the term for it but was a dislocation of the kneecap, she'd be ok sometimes, then be limping 5 minutes later. Initial injury happened on Xmas day out on a walk, bouncing about with anther dog we met. Vet had her on low activity for nearly a month before decision was made to do the op as the ligament wasn't going to heal by itself.
As above, keeping a young active dog quiet has been challenging to say the least. Especially once she decided she was ok again, after about 2 weeks.

It's been difficult at times, but we have her back at her bouncy annoying self again. And we couldn't be happier.

 

[Mile195]

So I bumped into the lady that runs our local pet shop the other day who gave me the name of a small vets practice who her customers keep recommending. They don't do TTA, but seemed to think that the ligament repair operation isn't necessarily any less effective and they do it regularly on dogs of all sizes.

Lucas is a pretty inactive dog (Shar-pei, so it's in the breed to sit around, rather than run around!) so we're going to take a chance on it.

Better still, they charge half the amount (£650 plus meds) that our existing vet wants for the same (cheaper) operation. So just goes to show that it is worth shopping around. I understand that the vets we had been using are owned by a fairly large and faceless corporate company... I guess they have their shareholders to please, but perhaps they should stick to selling sawdust and fish food, rather than fleecing people just because they care about their pets...

...Anyway, got him booked in for the 15th. It'll be heartbreaking to have to keep him in a crate for four weeks but it'll be good to have him back to normal.

Watch this space....