Is this a good beginners bike?

[GatleyJim]

Quick update,

I liked the Ed Cycles Cross Bike, although I must admit that the handling was a little strange but that's probably because I'm used to my racer. It comes in at £450 but I'd need to buy a rack and mudguards so would be talking £500 (unless people know of a good deal on these).

I'm angling towards a Raleigh Royal now because I have seen these for £390 new and they come with the rack and guards. However, I can't find anywhere to test-ride them.

Then, on Ebay, I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Raleigh-Royal...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1688|293:1|294:50

Really, the only reason I'm changing bikes is because the frame doesn't have mudguard and rack eyes (and it's slightly too small - 60cm). So, I got thinking that I could buy this frame, put the current parts from my Ribble onto it (they're Shimano 105, which I have been told are good), sell the Ribble and have the bike I want at a lower price. Plus it's a larger frame and I could sell my Ribble frame to get some money back.

Is this a daft idea?

Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost to spray-paint the frame and get my Ribble parts added to this frame? Could I even try it myself?

Is this idea a complete false economy and would I be likely to end up with no money and lots of bike parts around my house?

Cheers,

James.

 

[chris667]

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest buying a decent touring bike secondhand, and selling the Ribble.

The Ribble sounds rather special, take it apart and sell it as bits and you'd make more money than the tourer would cost.

The Royal is OK but not special, definitely a retrograde step from what you have now.

If you paid someone to take all the bits off the Ribble and fit them to another frame, you'd be looking at £75+ for labour before you need to renew anything (which you will). Paint job starts at £75 as well.

 

[simon_brooke]

Quick update,

I liked the Ed Cycles Cross Bike, although I must admit that the handling was a little strange but that's probably because I'm used to my racer. It comes in at £450 but I'd need to buy a rack and mudguards so would be talking £500 (unless people know of a good deal on these).

I'm angling towards a Raleigh Royal now because I have seen these for £390 new and they come with the rack and guards. However, I can't find anywhere to test-ride them.

Then, on Ebay, I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Raleigh-Royal...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1688|293:1|294:50

Really, the only reason I'm changing bikes is because the frame doesn't have mudguard and rack eyes (and it's slightly too small - 60cm). So, I got thinking that I could buy this frame, put the current parts from my Ribble onto it (they're Shimano 105, which I have been told are good), sell the Ribble and have the bike I want at a lower price. Plus it's a larger frame and I could sell my Ribble frame to get some money back.

Is this a daft idea?

No, it isn't.

You'll need to 'cold set' (bend) the frame to get it to fit a modern rear wheel - I think from memory that five/six speed wheels had an over-locknut dimension of 120mm whereas modern rear hubs are 130mm. The method I've used is to take a piece of threaded rod with two nuts on, put it in the rear drop outs and screw the nuts apart, spreading the rear end of the frame. Because steel is very springy you have to go a lot past 130mm to have it spring back to 130mm, so it's a matter of screwing it out a bit, releasing, it, measuring it, and screwing it out a bit again.

There's some risk in doing this of ending up with a frame which is asymmetric, and this is bad. The way to check is to stretch a piece of string from one rear dropout, round the head tube, and back to the other rear dropout. The string should be the same distance away from the seat tube on both sides. If you do find you've bent it asymmetric it isn't a disaster - steel frames are forgiving - but I would at that stage take it to a good bike mechanic and have him sort it out.

Do NOT try this trick with an aluminium frame because you will probably crack it, and it will fail shortly thereafter!

I know this all sounds a bit technical and scary, but honestly it isn't.

Two other things to check BEFORE you start: if the frame wasn't made for 700C wheels, avoid it. 27" wheels are only slightly different, but they're different enough that getting brakes to work with 700C wheels will be more or less impossible, and 27" tyres are now available only in a very limited range.

Modern caliper front brakes have a nut which screws into a recess in the rear of the fork. Older forks do not have this recess, and need a longer fixing bolt, so modern brakes may not fit (or you will need to replace the fork).

The particular frame you've linked to is for 700C wheels and cantilever brakes so doesn't have either of these problems, but in case you don't get that one those are hints as to what to look for in others.

You can get a frame powder coated for about £70; I'd advise doing the cold-setting first.

 

[GatleyJim]

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest buying a decent touring bike secondhand, and selling the Ribble.

The Ribble sounds rather special, take it apart and sell it as bits and you'd make more money than the tourer would cost.

The Royal is OK but not special, definitely a retrograde step from what you have now.

If you paid someone to take all the bits off the Ribble and fit them to another frame, you'd be looking at £75+ for labour before you need to renew anything (which you will). Paint job starts at £75 as well.

Cheers Chris,
I have read that the Royal is quite heavy and the paintwork is poor and can easily scratch.

£150 for a paint job plus labour is a real turn off (the frame will probably come in at £50 as well). Plus I would end up without having any top brakes, which I really would like. I'm not one of these people who needs to have everything new (quite the opposite in fact) so I might look for something second-hand. I've seen these three (the Ribble looks beautiful although maybe the frame is too small?):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130320298461&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&salenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110415915898&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&salenotsupported

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150360109068&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&salenotsupported

If I sold my current bike, which parts would you sell together? Frame separately of course.

I'd say budget isn't so much as an issue as getting the ride bike at a decent price. Don't want to spend more than £500 though. Plus, I'm doing to Coast to Coast in a month so, whatever I buy, it needs to be soon!

 

[GatleyJim]

No, it isn't.

You'll need to 'cold set' (bend) the frame to get it to fit a modern rear wheel - I think from memory that five/six speed wheels had an over-locknut dimension of 120mm whereas modern rear hubs are 130mm. The method I've used is to take a piece of threaded rod with two nuts on, put it in the rear drop outs and screw the nuts apart, spreading the rear end of the frame. Because steel is very springy you have to go a lot past 130mm to have it spring back to 130mm, so it's a matter of screwing it out a bit, releasing, it, measuring it, and screwing it out a bit again.

There's some risk in doing this of ending up with a frame which is asymmetric, and this is bad. The way to check is to stretch a piece of string from one rear dropout, round the head tube, and back to the other rear dropout. The string should be the same distance away from the seat tube on both sides. If you do find you've bent it asymmetric it isn't a disaster - steel frames are forgiving - but I would at that stage take it to a good bike mechanic and have him sort it out.

Do NOT try this trick with an aluminium frame because you will probably crack it, and it will fail shortly thereafter!

I know this all sounds a bit technical and scary, but honestly it isn't.

Two other things to check BEFORE you start: if the frame wasn't made for 700C wheels, avoid it. 27" wheels are only slightly different, but they're different enough that getting brakes to work with 700C wheels will be more or less impossible, and 27" tyres are now available only in a very limited range.

Modern caliper front brakes have a nut which screws into a recess in the rear of the fork. Older forks do not have this recess, and need a longer fixing bolt, so modern brakes may not fit (or you will need to replace the fork).

The particular frame you've linked to is for 700C wheels and cantilever brakes so doesn't have either of these problems, but in case you don't get that one those are hints as to what to look for in others.

You can get a frame powder coated for about £70; I'd advise doing the cold-setting first.

Thanks Simon,

My Ribble is quite old anyway so that parts might fit. Cold-setting the frame does sound a bit scary for a beginner. Given the time I need the bike for (my big ride is in a month), I might go with Chris's suggestion of selling my Ribble parts and buying a second hand tourer. Swapping the parts over would be a really interesting and rewarding project but I think my ride is too soon for that. I really fancy building my own bike from scratch sometime in the future but, as I have never even stripped a bike down and built it back up yet, I think I might have to put that idea on hold.

Cheers for explaining the complications that could arise. It will all be valuable information when I eventually come to put my own bike together.

James.