Left hook, motorcyclist

[Goto10]

Another left hook, the irritating thing about this one is the fact that a policeman was right behind me (I'd filtered past him moments before at a pedestrian crossing along Tottenham Court Road) - you can see him go past shortly afterwards. The policeman clearly deemed the 'left hook' to be perfect riding by the motorcyclist!
I'm also a motorist and a motorcyclist and I have empathy for all 3 forms, but fellow 2 wheeled road users ought to be especially aware!


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um0VRJkOsEE

 

[lejogger]

It's a shocking piece of riding, and agreed, particularly disappointing that the police cycle didn't take any action. I assume a police bike would have a camera on the front that might have caught the incident though if you did want to pursue on any dangerous cycling charges even if only to issue a warning? Alas, as there was no real 'incident' it would probably be futile.

I had a similar experience yesterday with a car overtaking me mid-roundabout and cutting in front of me to turn left as I was already cycling past the turning. Good job my brakes were up to the job, although I don't think my shouts after the car were quite as efficiently performed!
At least I can learn from the experience and alter my riding style at the roundabout to ensure I don't leave room for this in future. How you can prepare for a motorist swerving in front of you at potentially every left turn I'll never know.

 

[Mad at urage]

It's a shocking piece of riding, and agreed, particularly disappointing that the police cycle didn't take any action. I assume a police bike would have a camera on the front that might have caught the incident though if you did want to pursue on any dangerous cycling charges even if only to issue a warning? Alas, as there was no real 'incident' it would probably be futile.

I had a similar experience yesterday with a car overtaking me mid-roundabout and cutting in front of me to turn left as I was already cycling past the turning. Good job my brakes were up to the job, although I don't think my shouts after the car were quite as efficiently performed!
At least I can learn from the experience and alter my riding style at the roundabout to ensure I don't leave room for this in future. How you can prepare for a motorist swerving in front of you at potentially every left turn I'll never know.

Look over your shoulder and move to primary?

 

[lejogger]

Look over your shoulder and move to primary?

I appreciate what you're saying. You should always be vigilant as a cyclist/commuter, but are you saying that when cycling along a main road you should be looking over your shoulder past every small side street? They can pop up every few metres, I'm not sure my neck is up to it!!
I'm not criticising or rejecting your comment by the way, I've only been commuting a year - cycling for 2/3, and am genuinely intrigued if I should be doing more to aid my safety.

 

[Jezston]

Look over your shoulder and move to primary?

Don't think that would have stopped that motorcyclists doing what he did, or all motorists from my experience.

 

[gambatte]

I don't know. I Recently got behind another cyclist and was forced to rethink my riding. The number of lifesavers he did was significantly more than myself, although I considered myself a 'decent' cyclist. Its a move that not only lets you know what's there, but attracts drivers attention to your presence.

 

[BentMikey]

I appreciate what you're saying. You should always be vigilant as a cyclist/commuter, but are you saying that when cycling along a main road you should be looking over your shoulder past every small side street? They can pop up every few metres, I'm not sure my neck is up to it!!
I'm not criticising or rejecting your comment by the way, I've only been commuting a year - cycling for 2/3, and am genuinely intrigued if I should be doing more to aid my safety.

Mad@urage is right. Your neck will become more flexible.

I thought of this for the hearing vs looking topic: The default riding position is primary, i.e. centre of lane. Of course some roads will demand almost continuous secondary riding, and some primary, and most a mixture of either depending on how much space there is to pass you, and how many hazards such as parked cars and junctions you need to negotiate. We should be looking back enough that you can see a car approaching from the rear, and make a decision whether to drop back to secondary to allow it past.

 

[sabian92]

I got left hooked today by an HGV today, and I can now appreciate how bloody scary it is.

Report that motorcyclist, even if that policeman didn't think it was a problem, because that was very nearly a crash.

 

[lejogger]

Mad@urage is right. Your neck will become more flexible.

I thought of this for the hearing vs looking topic: The default riding position is primary, i.e. centre of lane. Of course some roads will demand almost continuous secondary riding, and some primary, and most a mixture of either depending on how much space there is to pass you, and how many hazards such as parked cars and junctions you need to negotiate. We should be looking back enough that you can see a car approaching from the rear, and make a decision whether to drop back to secondary to allow it past.

I really appreciate these comments. It has opened my eyes to the fact that although I've always considered myself to be competent and anything but meek on the roads I am probably riding in a secondary position on a consistent basis. A large part of my commute is on a narrow 30 mph road which is a major route. There is also a brick wall on my left hand side when cycling into work, and many sunken grids, so although I am always wary to not allow myself to be squeezed close, if I ride out too much there's always a feeling that I'm holding everyone up, even though on that particular stretch I'm travelling of speeds upwards of 20mph.

It's a difficult balance to achieve. Being a confident commuter, ensuring you're looking after your own safety, whilst also trying not to be a pain or inconsiderate to the motorists.

 

[BentMikey]

Yeah, I totally sympathise, and often feel the same way about holding up motorists. The right position depends, doesn't it? Sometimes secondary will be the right position for miles and miles, simply because road width and faster traffic means that you can't stick to the default primary. I'll always drop back to secondary if I can allow cars past safely, but if there's no traffic or there's a reason to sit in primary, then I will.

 

[Mad at urage]

I appreciate what you're saying. You should always be vigilant as a cyclist/commuter, but are you saying that when cycling along a main road you should be looking over your shoulder past every small side street? They can pop up every few metres, I'm not sure my neck is up to it!!
I'm not criticising or rejecting your comment by the way, I've only been commuting a year - cycling for 2/3, and am genuinely intrigued if I should be doing more to aid my safety.

Yeah, as others have said: When there are a lot of side-roads (or any other hazard# that requires you to control the traffic behind), the default position should be primary. Since I learned to ride in London, I learned this early (back when accepted bike training said exactly the opposite). As Cyclecraft now says: Keep away from any give-way lines at junctions you are passing!

Jez, the motorcyclist might still have done that, but lejogger would have had more room to the left to keep himself safe. Primary stops most such behaviour, but as you say not all. It always* gives you more room to move away from the overtaking vehicle if necessary. If you are clipped on the handlebars (prepare if you think this is happening, by putting the heel of your left hand behind the bar and the fingers of your right in front and leaning towards the overtaking vehicle) then it means you are lss likely to clip the kerb with the front (which will have you off).


*Unless you are being overtaken on the inside - that will 'usually' be another cyclists ()
#(edit to add) Such as a brick wall or railing that cuts your escape options.

 

[Mad at urage]

Mad@urage is right. Your neck will become more flexible.

I thought of this for the hearing vs looking topic: The default riding position is primary, i.e. centre of lane. Of course some roads will demand almost continuous secondary riding, and some primary, and most a mixture of either depending on how much space there is to pass you, and how many hazards such as parked cars and junctions you need to negotiate. We should be looking back enough that you can see a car approaching from the rear, and make a decision whether to drop back to secondary to allow it past.

Re the hearing vs looking thing, this is how I see it (sic ): I always look before moving, but what I hear can sometimes tell me that it is not worth looking (aggressively approaching driver - concentrate on maintaining current position and replan when that car is gone for example).

 

[Norm]

Yeah, I totally sympathise, and often feel the same way about holding up motorists. The right position depends, doesn't it? Sometimes secondary will be the right position for miles and miles, simply because road width and faster traffic means that you can't stick to the default primary. I'll always drop back to secondary if I can allow cars past safely, but if there's no traffic or there's a reason to sit in primary, then I will.

I think this follow-up is needs to be read in conjunction with the earlier comment that primary is the default position.

For my commute, about 8 of the 10-miles are 60mph country roads with room for two cars to pass when I ride in secondary. I haven't had more than a handful of close passes and cars are delayed by no more than a few seconds. If I was to ride in primary, though, the fairly constant stream of vehicles in the opposite direction would mean that any cars behind me would be stuck there for a couple of miles.

If you just say that the default is primary without this proviso, I think that could be misunderstood.

As for left-hooking motorbikes, I had the opposite on Monday evening. I was on the motorbike stationary at some lights, the only vehicle in the queue and indicating left. I'd passed a cyclist a few hundred yards before the lights so I was looking out for him, which was fortunate as he was in my blind spot just as the lights changed. If I hadn't been looking for him and just moved off into the left turn, as many do, the buffoon cyclist and I would have both been chewing tarmac.

 

[gaz]

Cops on bikes will most likely be traffic cops, who will have tip top knowledge on how the road works and what people should and shouldn't do.

 

[davefb]

dont think primary had anything to do with it... that was just stupid driving.


you just expect motorcyclists to be a bit better...