New Embankment cycle lane, is it shared use? So many joggers.....

[booze and cake]

Is the new cycle lane along the Embankment for shared use with peds/joggers? (I had a brief search but could'nt find anything)

As its not yet completely finished there are no signs up giving any indication. I've just pinged an email to TFL to ask them for clarification, so I await their response, in the meantme I just wondered if anyone knows?

I've been using the bits that are open for a few weeks, and the section running to/from Parliament Square has loads of joggers in both directions, today in the sunshine the numbers were huge. I'm not hammering along there like I'm on a time trial, if I want to cycle fast I'll go and play with the traffic, but the numbers along there today just made me feel it was dangerous and we're going to be seeing an increase in number of collisions between cyclist and joggers. Most had personal steroes so calling out your approach from behind/using a bell was'nt heard, and on a 200, stretch today I encountered bunches of them running 2 or 3 abreast, don't worry the irony of cyclist moaning about selfish joggers running 2 or 3 abreast and hogging the lane isn't lost on me. And not one of them was wearng a helmet either

I know some cycle paths are shared use, and I'm fine with that, but this section already has a really wide pavement right alongsde the cycle lane for peds and runners. If joggers don't like dodging around walkers maybe they should start their own space for jogging campaign.

Anyone else felt uneasy cycling along here recently? It made me feel like I was cyclng along the pavement. God knows what its going to be like in the summer when all the fair weather runners emerge from hibernation in their short shorts and dazzlingly untanned pins. If its shared use I think I'm going back to taking my chances with the lorries and buses on the main highway, even if they end up shouting at me to get in the cycle lane.

 

[mjr]

Is the new cycle lane along the Embankment for shared use with peds/joggers?

No, but technically almost everything is shared use. Walkers and joggers are quite at liberty to walk along the main carriageway unless specifically prohibited by a traffic order (which normally means signs - a walker inside a red circle), but the threat of death by motor vehicle tends to discourage most in London from asserting their rights.

I know some cycle paths are shared use

No such thing as a cycle path in law. They're cycle tracks, even the "shared use" sillinesses, except for a few that are bridleways.

 

[mjr]

Oh and...

we're going to be seeing an increase in number of collisions between cyclist and joggers

in the short term, I suspect you may be right, sadly. People will learn, but it'll take a few shunts and probably notices/leaflets and people urging people they don't know not to walk in the cycle track or cycle on the footway. At least I hope it'll be balanced out by a decrease in motorist-cyclist and motorist-jogger collisions.

Most had personal steroes so calling out your approach from behind/using a bell was'nt heard

That might be one of the few times where I'd say airzounding a jogger might be OK!

 

[Firestorm]

Wait until the Roller bladers come out of hibernation....

 

[booze and cake]

Thanks @mjray,

@Firestorm haha, oh good grief, I'm going to have take up golf or something

 

[Pale Rider]

This is formerly carriageway.

So following Reg's logic, cars can still use it.

More likely is permitted use of the new lane depends on the enabling legislation used to create it.

 

[mjr]

No - the reason why I say if its former pathway it's automatically shared is that specifically what the legislation says. It's not my logic - it's the law.

Cite it.

But as I wrote above, even carriageways are shared.

 

[Pale Rider]

Looks like the Mayor's office/Transport for London is saying they don't need planning permission to create the superhighway.

There will be some regulation somewhere saying who can use one once it's been created, rather like bus lanes.

Or at least, one hopes there's a regulation otherwise the superhighway is just road marking graffiti.

http://www.planningresource.co.uk/a...ies-challenge-cycle-superhighway-construction

 

[mjr]

Looks like the Mayor's office/Transport for London is saying they don't need planning permission to create the superhighway.

That's normal for most highways works - and part of the reason why cycling campaigns have such trouble improving the design of such things. Unlike the planning permission process which involves a quasi-judicial process and formal hearings if challenged sufficiently, highways consultations are sporadic, unregulated and even the final decision communicated to us is subject to unannounced revisions before the end of construction - most often, the pro-motorist so-called "road safety" auditors will demand concessions.

It's nice to see this flaw become a helpful feature for a change!

There will be some regulation somewhere saying who can use one once it's been created, rather like bus lanes.

There may be two: Traffic Management Orders made under powers from the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (like bus lanes); and possibly the Prohibition of driving motor vehicles elsewhere than on roads in the Road Traffic Act 1988. But I don't know if @User is going to pull something else out of the hat (not the Cycle Tracks Act 1984 because that doesn't apply here).

 

[mjr]

The Cycle Tracks Act 1984. Section 3(1):

Not relevant because that act uses the definitions from the Highways Act 1980, so footpath there "means a highway over which the public have a right of way on foot only, not being a footway".

 

[mjr]

It is relevant to the point I made initially... when I asked if it had been converted from a footpath.

It's the bleeding Embankment A3211. It could have been a footway, but not a footpath.

 

[mjr]

I know... I'm not sure why he's got so picky over a conditional question...

Because it was half an answer. Speaking of which...

What I want to know is whether it's worth a trip to try out this new cycle route? I never really used to use the Embankment - there were far better roads to use on a bike.

Which roads? The Strand/Whitehall alternative was about as bad and didn't even have the river on one side, whereas the back streets are a labyrinth.

I agree with @User that it's probably better to wait for them to finish if you have that luxury.

 

[Tim Hall]

Don't you ever admit that you might be wrong Reg?

Is that one of those rhetorical questions I hear so much about?