New Shimano Brakes with Old-ish STis

[John the Monkey]

I'm thinking of swapping the Tektro calipers that came on my 2009 SCR2.0 for something a bit more shiny (and hopefully more effective).

The bike needs a deep drop caliper, so the Shimano R451, and R650 are in the frame. What I can't find out though, is whether these brakes will play nicely with the ST-4503 shifters on the bike - the descriptions either don't mention the levers at all, or suggest horrible, horrible death if anything other than ST-4600 series shifters are used.

(I remember the leverage on Ultegra brakes changing, can't recall any such announcement for Tiagra though).

Has anyone used this combination of lever/brake, or know whether the old-leverage STi works at all with the new leverage brake?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

I'm thinking of swapping the Tektro calipers that came on my 2009 SCR2.0 for something a bit more shiny (and hopefully more effective).

The bike needs a deep drop caliper, so the Shimano R451, and R650 are in the frame. What I can't find out though, is whether these brakes will play nicely with the ST-4503 shifters on the bike - the descriptions either don't mention the levers at all, or suggest horrible, horrible death if anything other than ST-4600 series shifters are used.

(I remember the leverage on Ultegra brakes changing, can't recall any such announcement for Tiagra though).

Has anyone used this combination of lever/brake, or know whether the old-leverage STi works at all with the new leverage brake?

In case you are unaware, the right brifter is st-4500, while st-4501 and st-4503 are the codes for the double and triple left respectively. According to this, they are perfectly compatible with the R450/451 and R650.

 

[John the Monkey]

In case you are unaware, the right brifter is st-4500, while st-4501 and st-4503 are the codes for the double and triple left respectively. According to this, they are perfectly compatible with the R450/451 and R650.

Ah, maybe ST-450x would have been a better way to say it - thanks, in any case - a day of googling turned up nothing conclusive for me! That site is a terrific resource - bookmarked for future reference.

Incidentally, the link came up dead for me - this is the image version, in case there's a problem with direct links to the .pdf, and anyone else has the same question...

http://www.celebrazio.net/bicycling/shimano/2011_compatibility.html

 

[fossyant]

You'll be fine. I have the BR-A550 callipers's on my fixed. Never had any issues with road brake callipers and levers.

 

[John the Monkey]

Not sure who's interested in the outcome of this, if anyone, but I plumped for a pair of R-650 brakes (a little over £50 from Ribble).

Had my first ride with them at the weekend, immediately very impressive - stopping power is better than the Tektro brakes the bike was supplied with (the R650s still have the stock pads in, the Tektros had Fibrax Xtreme, a good pad). I'm slightly irked that the cable goes directly into the adjuster without a ferrule, but other than that, fitting was straightforward.

On the off chance that anyone else is wavering over a similar decision, I'd recommend the R-650s unhesitatingly.

 

[Dogtrousers]

How does this work btw? I often see people saying that brake X stops better than brake Y and I'm not doubting it at all. It's just that (unless we are comparing different types of brakes, eg Vs, cantis ...) they all do the same thing, transfer a given pull into pad pressure on the rim. If they have the same pull they'll have the same mechanical advantage.

As I say, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious. What makes a good brake a good brake (apart from weight, smoothness, looks, durability ...)

 

[John the Monkey]

How does this work btw? I often see people saying that brake X stops better than brake Y and I'm not doubting it at all. It's just that (unless we are comparing different types of brakes, eg Vs, cantis ...) they all do the same thing, transfer a given pull into pad pressure on the rim. If they have the same pull they'll have the same mechanical advantage.

As I say, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious. What makes a good brake a good brake (apart from weight, smoothness, looks, durability ...)

My guess would be that the R-650s have less flex in the arms than the Tektros that came on the bike (they certainly feel more solid). Cabling is the same, pads are different (stock on the new brakes, which I'd expect to be worse - that may be unfair though) levers are the same. There may be some gubbins happening around cable pull and leverage &c that I can't speak of knowledgably.

Feel wise, the new brakes are more positive, and inspire more confidence on descents than the Tektros did, which is good enough for me...

(They look well smart too, btw )

 

[Smokin Joe]

My guess would be that the R-650s have less flex in the arms than the Tektros that came on the bike (they certainly feel more solid). )

That's about it.