Not impressed..........

[Theseus]

Ian,

Apologies, I was hijacking the thread. I realise that the OP was about traditional cup & cone and that the pitting had gone beyond repair needing the replacement of the wheel. When fossy started talking about replacing sealed cartridge bearings in a Formula hub I had to jump in as I have recently found my bearing to be loose and needing replacement.

 

[fossyant]

All here to help Ian......... threads do go off at a tangent and the OP was 'sorted'....

Cup and cone are a mare if you don't have the high end hubs...... as it's not always easy to find a cone that will fit properly - Shimano had a habbit of changing specs all the time.

Shimano seem to have got their hubs sorted with the bigger seals, but the freehub side hub seals are rubbish, although not prone to direct 'blasting'.... Regular maintenance stops the issues.

Cartridge are fit and forget, then replace.

 

[Ian H]

I wasn't getting at anybody.

 

[Crankarm]

An update...... Hub has been inspected at the supplying bike shop and it would appear that damage has been caused by dirt getting into the bearings. They had a try at telling me bearings are a "wear-out" item, and therefore not covered by warranty . As I pointed out, it is sold as a cyclo-cross bike, and should therefore be able to resist a reasonable amount of dirty conditions. They agreed to return the wheel to Specialized "to see what they can do".

Ten minutes after leaving the shop, I got a phone call. They had spoken to Specialized, who were willing to replace the hub and bearings without seeing it. So a result of sorts. I have agreed to upgrade the hub to a sealed type, so that I am not worrying every time I go through a puddle that I might be damaging the bike . Cost to me of upgrade is £30. Should be ready for middle of next week. Now to go and strip the FRONT, and fill it with lithium grease....

Seems a bit tight to me. It's the manufacturer's fault not yours. I don't think you should have to pay a penny as the hubs should be of sufficent quality and durability and design that they don't fail after 3 months. You did after all by a Cyclo-Cross bike and it would be reasonable to expect the hubs to cope with lots of mud and dirt from such an environment. If they don't you should be able to enforce your statutory rights. Since the hubs have failed after 3 months it is the retailer who has to show they were up to the job NOT you to show that they weren't. If it were me I would refuse to pay. I think sections 13/14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 cover the hub failure - of sufficient quality, durability and fit for purpose. Plus the bike was sold to you for a specific purpose - cyclo cross. Therefore the manufarturer/retailer has made representations which you have relied upon that the bike will be durable and sufficiently robust for this. Clearly the hubs failing after only 3 months suggest the bike is not therefore the manufacturer/retailer has made misrepresentations.

When you go back to pick it up point this out to them. I would put money on them not charging you anything if you stick to your guns. Also if you paid by credit card your statutory rights can enforced against your card provider under the Consumer Credit Act which means you can seek redress from them. They don't tell you this or it's in the very very small print as credit card providers don't want the aggravation or say it is a matter for the retailer.

 

[bauldbairn]

6000 2RS are the ones.. sorry made by SKF (2RS means double sealed)....SKF seam a good make of bearing.

2RS means Rubber Shield on both sides of the bearing - they are however sealed to the inner and outer race. This is infact a rubberised metal plate that gives better dust protection to the bearings than 2ZZ(Steel Shields).

SKF are a reputable brand as are FAG,RHP,NTN,FSK. Most industry standards require SKF or FAG to be used to maintain OEM specifications.

One word of warning(the main reason for my post) regards buying bearings from ebay - there are a lot of fake/counterfeit bearings on the market that have not been manufactured to the same high standards as brand names they claim to represent.

Considering how catastrophic bearing failure would be on a bike wheel at speed I would recommend using a reputable dealer - either Brammer or Eriks(formerly WYKO). If you use a small local bearing supplier ask for a Certificate of Conformity before buying. Most bearings will now have some sort of seal or hologram on the individual box or pack.

This is a problem industry wide. I've spent 24 years in Rotating Machinery Engineering - 12 of which has been writing reports for things like bearing failures and investigating why they've failed for manufacturers such as Siemens, Bosch and FANUC.

Just a heads up - they'll only cost a few quid from the national bearing suppliers and Brammer take credit cards so you don't need a business account. Think how much your bikes and personal welfare are worth.

I use SMB for my bearings as they always seem very helpfull.
BTW I always thought ceramic bearings were best utilised in very high RPM applications (20,000rpm and upwards) and that their advantages were much deminished as the revs drop to bicycle speeds. So I have never bothered with ceramic just be sure that you get well sealed ones.

Quite right about the ceramic bearings - they're more stable at high and low temperature too. Also more resistant to corrosion and extreme environments - wet / dusty / humid etc.

 

[asterix]

Strewth! An expert

After that I can only add my agreement that the OP should not have to pay to remedy defective goods. Many years experience as an all-weather commuter tells me that hubs (even cheapos) should do far, far better than he has had to put up with.

 

[fossyant]

Chears bauldbairn - some very useful information. I did check the seller out, but I didn't realise fakes were so common. The ones I have are genuine fortunately.

 

[bauldbairn]

Strewth! An expert

- everybody know's at least one piece of useful information.

some useful information....but I didn't realise fakes were so common.

No probs fozzyant! Industry is starting to weed them out - but some internet traders may or may not realise what they're selling.

Worth noting - the fraudsters seem to be moving into the Japanese automobile aftermarket(tuning) and replacement OEM parts supply.

 

[Brandane]

Seems a bit tight to me. It's the manufacturer's fault not yours. I don't think you should have to pay a penny as the hubs should be of sufficent quality and durability and design that they don't fail after 3 months. You did after all by a Cyclo-Cross bike and it would be reasonable to expect the hubs to cope with lots of mud and dirt from such an environment. If they don't you should be able to enforce your statutory rights. Since the hubs have failed after 3 months it is the retailer who has to show they were up to the job NOT you to show that they weren't. If it were me I would refuse to pay. I think sections 13/14 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 cover the hub failure - of sufficient quality, durability and fit for purpose. Plus the bike was sold to you for a specific purpose - cyclo cross. Therefore the manufarturer/retailer has made representations which you have relied upon that the bike will be durable and sufficiently robust for this. Clearly the hubs failing after only 3 months suggest the bike is not therefore the manufacturer/retailer has made misrepresentations.

When you go back to pick it up point this out to them. I would put money on them not charging you anything if you stick to your guns. Also if you paid by credit card your statutory rights can enforced against your card provider under the Consumer Credit Act which means you can seek redress from them. They don't tell you this or it's in the very very small print as credit card providers don't want the aggravation or say it is a matter for the retailer.

Good advice Crankarm. They were willing to replace the hub with a standard Shimano hub free of charge, but as that is obviously not up to the job, what is the point of puttting another one on? Sell a bike as a cyclo-cross and it should have sealed hubs as standard. So I will put it to them when I go to pick it up that Specialized should be paying the extra!

 

[Crankarm]

Good advice Crankarm. They were willing to replace the hub with a standard Shimano hub free of charge, but as that is obviously not up to the job, what is the point of puttting another one on? Sell a bike as a cyclo-cross and it should have sealed hubs as standard. So I will put it to them when I go to pick it up that Specialized should be paying the extra!

Keep us updated of your progress.

 

[Browser]

Let us know how you get on.
It peeves me greatly that it seems to not be popssible to buy new bearing races to fit to your wheels if you are running ball and cone-type bearings, despite them being an easy component to knock out/tap in.

 

[Theseus]

Strewth, that was fast ...

Yesterday afternoon I rang up SKF to ask for some of their distributors. Rang around to get a few quotes. The cheapest were BRT bearings so I placed an order and they arrived in the post this morning. £3.20 each plus £5.00 carriage plus VAT.

 

[Brandane]

Another update....

Got my wheel back yesterday. It has been fitted with a "Halo spin master" sealed bearing rear hub. They also had to replace the spokes as the originals were too long to fit, as the new hub has a bigger circumference. Had a quick ride on it today and all seems well.

With regards to the £30 cost, I must admit I wimped out from arguing about it; mainly because when I went to collect it, I did so while driving a large articulated lorry, and I was a bit off my run! I was desperately trying to avoid a parking ticket as questions would have ben asked. Since I was parked outside the shop in Glasgow on double yellow lines, I decided to make my visit as short as possible. Better to pay the £30 and keep my job I thought....

 

[Crankarm]

Glad you got your wheel sorted to your satisfaction.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

With regards to the £30 cost, I must admit I wimped out from arguing about it; mainly because when I went to collect it, I did so while driving a large articulated lorry, and I was a bit off my run! I was desperately trying to avoid a parking ticket as questions would have ben asked.

Nice one. I once bought a Cannondale tourer from a bloke in Manchester and turned up outside his house in a DAF 95 with a 45' trailer on the back. His neighbours didn't seem impressed, but he was.