On The Radio

[lukesdad]

From the article:
"Report in to DfT casualty stats says cyclists not to blame in 93 per cent of cases"

It clearly says it via way of percentages of all the KSIs.
http://road.cc/conte...ommissioned-dft

Come on, what other ways could a cyclist be partially or wholey to blame? Looking at the driver funny?

Another way of twisting the facts to suit your point of view ?

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

(Belated) welcome from me as well.

There are pretty dim people on every forum. As I said in that thread, I'm basing my opinions on what I'm seeing: At 14 red lights in my journey I counted no less than 38 cyclists running a red light. In that same distance I counted exactly zero cars do the same thing.

Well, when I'm driving I am always astounded that I might go through an amber light and wonder whether perhaps I could/should have stopped, only to see three or four cars come through behind me. I also see many cars go through red lights when I'm cycling. Red light jumping is a significant issue amongst cyclists and motorists alike.

No, I'm willing to accept that there are bad drivers in all road vehicles. What I'm struggling with is how most of the videos on BSRU's site don't seem to display anything other than normal road use to me.

I usually post a video of a cyclist doing something illegal or stupid if I get one, but they are fairly rare in my videos. That may be because cyclists are rare compared to motorists on my own route, though.

I stand by my comments. A road user should pay road tax. And do I accept the pension concept is dead.

Go back to my comment on the torqueitalia discussion regarding this ... Oh dear, you can't, looks like it's been deleted. I guess someone over there really does get upset by rational arguments that they don't agree with.

Show me the data and I'm willing to believe you. At the moment it's your say against my say and no one is going to win that argument. If you think this is a big deal, back it up with facts and we'll have a real discussion about it. Not local facts to you, real, comprehensive, national stats.
So, lets see some data to prove that car drivers are worse behaved than cyclists.

I don't have stats for cars, nor do I have national stats, but there was a study published by Transport
for London on the situation there. The conclusion was that 84% of cyclists observed obeyed traffic signals, so the problem is not "endemic". (Though the other 16% is still too much.) You may find that study here.

 

[downfader]

Another way of twisting the facts to suit your point of view ?

Fine.

Its not my view, its from the DfT's own TRL study. It'd be listed as another fault if there was one. Another thread unsub'ed from.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Wow. CCers go and kick off on another forum and they reckon that the users of the other forum are idiots. FWIW, next time you sign up to another forum just to create trouble, have a little ponder on the fact that we usually delete users who come here to do that and any backlash has to be sorted by Shaun, not those who went to have their little "fun" on another forum. I think you got away lightly just having the thread closed.

What a strange thing to say. I certainly never mentioned CC on the other forum; nor, I think, did anyone else. How self-centred to believe this was about CC. There was a forum where the issue came up of cyclists with helmet cams taking video and posting clips on YouTube, which mentioned one particular member of that community. A small number of the helmet cam-using community went to express their point of view. It may surprise you to hear that I don't have a business card with "CycleChat" written on it, and am quite able to operate independently as a private individual.

As a participant of CC, I have no problem with jnoiles expressing his views here either, even if I do disagree with some of them.

 

[LosingFocus]

What a strange thing to say. I certainly never mentioned CC on the other forum; nor, I think, did anyone else. How self-centred to believe this was about CC. There was a forum where the issue came up of cyclists with helmet cams taking video and posting clips on YouTube, which mentioned one particular member of that community. A small number of the helmet cam-using community went to express their point of view. It may surprise you to hear that I don't have a business card with "CycleChat" written on it, and am quite able to operate independently as a private individual.

As a participant of CC, I have no problem with jnoiles expressing his views here either, even if I do disagree with some of them.

If you followed the link from here, the admin of the TI site will know where you came from.

As an ex-admin of a football forum, tit-for-tat posts from rival fans (if you follow) are the bane of an admin's life.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

If you followed the link from here, the admin of the TI site will know where you came from.
As an ex-admin of a football forum, tit-for-tat posts from rival fans (if you follow) are the bane of an admin's life.

If the admin wants to search the http logs to find the first time my IP address accessed the server, then yes, but I doubt it. As far as my one, well-reasoned post on their forum is concerned, I think the log would show that in the request that resulted in that post I came from their registration page.

I do think it is important that someone puts the counter-argument whenever the ill-informed views of some motorists are expressed in a publicly accessible forum. As it happens, the thread has been deleted, so the ill-informed comments have now gone anyway.

However, I don't want to create work for our admin, so if a similar situation arises, I will copy the URL and paste it into a new tab so that the source is not traceable.

 

[campbellab]

I agree, I see more cyclist's breaking the law than car drivers but I have no statistics to back up my personal observations.

~50+% of motorists speed on the motorway, not too much of a concern to cyclists. But then ~50% speed on 30mph roads...

You must see more cars than cyclists on your commute so you must see more drivers breaking the law if half are speeding!

Source.

 

[Norm]

What a strange thing to say. I certainly never mentioned CC on the other forum; nor, I think, did anyone else. How self-centred to believe this was about CC. There was a forum where the issue came up of cyclists with helmet cams taking video and posting clips on YouTube, which mentioned one particular member of that community. A small number of the helmet cam-using community went to express their point of view. It may surprise you to hear that I don't have a business card with "CycleChat" written on it, and am quite able to operate independently as a private individual.

Well, jnoiles found the thread here without too much difficulty.

I don't for one second think that it's just about CC, but it was made about CC when you and others started posting about it on CC.

 

[400bhp]

From the article:
"Report in to DfT casualty stats says cyclists not to blame in 93 per cent of cases"

It clearly says it via way of percentages of all the KSIs.
http://road.cc/conte...ommissioned-dft

Come on, what other ways could a cyclist be partially or wholey to blame? Looking at the driver funny?

I suggest you read the actual report. Over 40% of cyclists were solely to blame for accidents where a cyclist was killed or seriously injured.

Of the accidents where cyclists were solely to blame:
- wearing dark clothing at night =10%
- no lights = 5%
- Disobeyed give way or stop = 5%

Total of above (0.1+ 0.05+0.05) x 0.4 = 8%, which is the only way I can see they get their 7% from(they have probably took account of the slight injuries too which cyclists account for slightly less than 40%).

 

[BentMikey]

I think it's non-motorists that ought to have sympathy and gratitude from drivers. Not only does pretty much everyone who works pay tax, thus to some extent subsidising the private motorist, but think of the gridlock out there if all the cyclists drove their cars to work instead of cycle commuting.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Well, jnoiles found the thread here without too much difficulty.

And BSRU found the TI thread without much difficulty. Google is an amazing tool isn't it.

I don't for one second think that it's just about CC, but it was made about CC when you and others started posting about it on CC.

Not really. The use of helmet cameras, as well as the reactions of motorists to the use of helmet cameras, is a topic that is relevant for discussion in the Commuting section of a cycling forum. There is another thread going just now on the VXR forum that is just incredible in the vitriol, ignorance and even threats that are being posted by just the kinds of people we meet every day on the roads. I think this is very much a concern for cyclists, especially commuters, and so ought to be discussed here by anyone that wants to discuss it.

There is always the danger of people coming to a forum and trolling, of course, but I have not seen any trolling by TI members here, and there certainly was none on the TI forum topic which, unlike the VXR one, was shaping up to be quite a constructive debate until the admin killed it for reasons that escape me.

 

[fimm]

@jnoiles - what makes you think that people who ride bicycles don't also own cars?