Password Manager

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As aforementioned by myself, they are more likely to simply steal them. Whether you have ABC123 or a 200 digit random selection of dots and dashes makes no different when they hack the server and steal the password whole.

Yes, they certainly are, and as aforementioned by myself [Edit: including, implicitly, in the previous post to this in fact], that will do them no good whatsoever if they don't have your second factor, which is *not* the password. See my previous description of what that means a few posts back in reply to 'Two factor?'
 
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Dan B

Disengaged member
As aforementioned by myself, they are more likely to simply steal them. Whether you have ABC123 or a 200 digit random selection of dots and dashes makes no different when they hack the server and steal the password whole.
When they hack the server and steal all the passwords, they will find (hopefully, if the admins/developers are halfway competent) that they actually have all the password hashes - which is to say, the passwords have been one-way encrypted and the only way to crack one is to guess what it might have been, encrypt your guess using the same scheme, and compare the hashes

In that (surprisingly common) scenario, it matters quite a lot whether your password is an easy one for a computer program to guess, and it matters much more so if you've also used it elsewhere meaning they can logon as you on other sites
 

Ben17

Senior Member
Location
Midlands
I'll put another vote in for Keepass, which I've used it for a number of years. As a result, all of my passwords are unique and as strong as the site/service in question allows.

It has auto-type makes entry very straightforward. It can make use of a system-wide hotkey to automatically find and enter the correct credentials of the site in question, without the need for browser-specific plugins. It will even work on non-browser software.

I use a long passphrase along with a key file to provide access to Keepass itself. That means a nefarious person would need to both know that password, and have the file to gain access.

The software itself is offline by nature and doesn't rely on third-party servers in the way that, for example, LastPass does. However, the database file can be stored in a cloud (Dropbox, Onedrive etc.) making it accessible across devices. The software supports Windows, Mac, Linux and there are apps available for Android and iOS, so most devices should be covered.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Two Factor ?
When you have to have your phone number or your fingerprint or your bank card or something similar to log in. Basically, encouraging people to also steal your phone number/card/finger(:eek:) if they want access - and it means that the account manager gets (say) your phone number, which you might not ordinarily give them - and I suspect that most of them keep the phone numbers stored in the clear, which is dumb but I've seen it.

I can see why companies love it but it's not as completely helpful as they try to suggest. It's probably worth it for important logins, but I'd be slightly cautious about what you use them for.

It doesn't matter, no, though restricting passwords to 26 characters makes cracking considerably quicker than including numerics and other characters.
As I suspect you know, it does matter. Attackers often have worked out the codes equivalent to common phrases like ABC or ABC123 and pretty much the entire dictionary (including names and substitutions, so things like l1v3rp00lfc aren't safe), so if they do manage to hack the server steal the whole database of encrypted passwords, then the easy passwords will often be the first ones revealed by basically brute-force attacks.

I'll put another vote in for Keepass, which I've used it for a number of years.
I vote for Keepass-compatible clients too. I've no idea which of those I use are official or not, but it seems a good basic system for now.
 
When you have to have your phone number or your fingerprint or your bank card or something similar to log in. Basically, encouraging people to also steal your phone number/card/finger(:eek:) if they want access ....<snip>

I can see why companies love it but it's not as completely helpful as they try to suggest. It's probably worth it for important logins, but I'd be slightly cautious about what you use them for.

As I suspect you know, it does matter.<snip>

Yes, I do know, but, as I'm sure you know too, this is a complicated area and going into the detail of what does and doesn't matter is instance-specifc and requires understanding threat models peculiar to the situation of the person in question, including the risk of loss involved. (A better phraseology might have been 'It doesn't matter, comparatively, since it's a minor detail compared to the bigger picture of pseudo-randomising.')

For example, if a specific attacker wants a specific target's credentials then everything is very different from broad-brush attacks where all of Company X's client's credentials are stolen. In the former case, you may get the theft of 'phone, fingers, keys, etc., but that scenario is very much in the minority of threats. Most threats are of the more general type, originating on-line and in that instance a basic starting point is pseudo-randomised passwords using the widest potential character set possible.

On two factor authentication, I agree that it's not perfect and introduces additional problems (most particularly so once widely adopted), but it is a big improvement on simply using a password. The precise nature of what the second factor is makes a considerable difference to the type of threat it protects against and the type that it introduces (I'm thinking biometrics based on body parts which can be removed here!). It is fair to say, though, that for the most numerically common threats, two factor is a very effective defence.
 
Attackers often have worked out the codes equivalent to common phrases like ABC or ABC123 and pretty much the entire dictionary (including names and substitutions, so things like l1v3rp00lfc aren't safe), so if they do manage to hack the server steal the whole database of encrypted passwords, then the easy passwords will often be the first ones revealed by basically brute-force attacks
I think that some people still have an image of a hacker sitting at a screen trying to guess what their target has used as a password. But chances are, they will just be running a programme downloaded off the internet that will do the job for them. I'm told that any password made up of a real word is crackable in under 8 seconds.
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
When I used to work for Sainsbury's a few years ago the done thing was to have one set of accounts per store, with the password for everything as the city you were in followed by 1, e.g. "London1". This made it very easy if you were sent to cover another store.

They did try and change it to (gasp) two accounts but everyone kicked off and they changed it back. Bearing in mind the software they were using at the time, Repos, allowed access to full credit card numbers I hope they have changed it by now.

tl;dr Your details are more secure with you than with other people anyway.
One company I worked for went bust twice, reopening for a third time. I still have access to their till system.
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
Didn't one of these password sites get hacked a few weeks ago? I have to say that the first time I saw one mentioned my first thought was, what if it gets hacked?
 

swee'pea99

Squire
I like that.

A similar thing I saw recently - to combine security with memorability - was to take the initial letters of a phrase. Say, for example, you like the Aristocats movie, and you'll never forget the song 'Everybody wants to be a cat', so, you make your password ewtbacbactocwkwia. You'll never forget it, but it's all but impossible for anyone (or program) to guess.

Doubtless someone will be along soon to tell me how wrong I am...
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Didn't one of these password sites get hacked a few weeks ago? I have to say that the first time I saw one mentioned my first thought was, what if it gets hacked?
That's why I won't use any of the systems with a central server that I don't control. You might as well paint a huge farking target on the server with a sign saying "hackers, free corn here" and we know how well that plan worked for the coyote!

A similar thing I saw recently - to combine security with memorability - was to take the initial letters of a phrase. Say, for example, you like the Aristocats movie, and you'll never forget the song 'Everybody wants to be a cat', so, you make your password ewtbacbactocwkwia. You'll never forget it, but it's all but impossible for anyone (or program) to guess.

Doubtless someone will be along soon to tell me how wrong I am...
It depends on the phrase. I suspect passwords based on really popular songs will be in some of the password lists used by attackers, so it's better if you base it on a phrase that's rather unusual but memorable to you, like something sweet your beloved once said.
 

Ben17

Senior Member
Location
Midlands
That's why I won't use any of the systems with a central server that I don't control. You might as well paint a huge farking target on the server with a sign saying "hackers, free corn here" and we know how well that plan worked for the coyote!


It depends on the phrase. I suspect passwords based on really popular songs will be in some of the password lists used by attackers, so it's better if you base it on a phrase that's rather unusual but memorable to you, like something sweet your beloved once said.

Like you say, something unique but memorable is best, along with adding some special characters too, to increase the character set which a potential hacker would have to use.

I made my Keepass passphrase by looking around me for inspiration of some words, placing them in an order which I could create a little story to connect them and then adding in punctuation and some capitalisation. Easy for me to remember, difficult for someone to guess, and a very long password for a brute force attack. Coupling that with a keyfile requirement and that Keepass doesn't use a central server means I'm happy.
 
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