Red Light Jumping

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Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Well, there we are then. When you say "it's wrong because it encourages copycat behaviour", it turns out that the copycat behaviour is only a problem because you've already decided that it's wrong for other reasons.


I would happily concede that we all need to think about the example we set when we indulge in potentially dangerous behaviours that others might copy - but these behaviours might also include filtering, or riding fast, or riding on busy roads, or riding without hi-viz, or even riding bikes at all. Or crossing the road. The only reason you have for singling RLJ out from these others is that you have already decided it is (in general) wrong and they are (in general) not, but you can't use "it encourages copycats" as a reason for it being wrong, because that's simply circular reasoning. Stick with the good reasons (which so far imo are that it reduces your predictability on the road because you're not following the conventions for road use enshrined in law) and consider the copycat issue as merely an intensifying factor

I have not already decided anything. The law of the land has decided.

I have singled out RLJing as it is the only item listed that is illegal. I'm sure you already know this however..........
 
Well, there we are then. When you say "it's wrong because it encourages copycat behaviour", it turns out that the copycat behaviour is only a problem because you've already decided that it's wrong for other reasons.


I would happily concede that we all need to think about the example we set when we indulge in potentially dangerous behaviours that others might copy - but these behaviours might also include filtering, or riding fast, or riding on busy roads, or riding without hi-viz, or even riding bikes at all. Or crossing the road. The only reason you have for singling RLJ out from these others is that you have already decided it is (in general) wrong and they are (in general) not, but you can't use "it encourages copycats" as a reason for it being wrong, because that's simply circular reasoning. Stick with the good reasons (which so far imo are that it reduces your predictability on the road because you're not following the conventions for road use enshrined in law) and consider the copycat issue as merely an intensifying factor

do you actually believe what you type or are you just playing devils advocate :wacko:
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
The encouragement factor is a byproduct of the action - it does not define why it is essentially wrong in the first place.

It is essentially wrong in the first place because:


Roads are by their nature populated by a variety of dangerous vehicles from cycles to juggernauts which put users of other vehicles and pedestrians at risk.

Relative safety is ensured by a system of rules that ensure, among other things, a reasonable degree of predictability as the the likely behaviour of other users: Behaviour within the rules is, in normal circumstances, safe and behaviours outside the rules are less safe and potentially put other users at risk.

Anarchic behaviour by random individuals choosing which rules to obey destroys the predictability and potentially puts road users at higher risk.


ie RLJing is wrong in principle not because it is against the law but because it disrupts the saftey system making the roads more unpredictable and less safe


There is a whole different argument about what rules should be set as to priorities and duties of road users at light controlled junctions eg left on red, or flashing amber at night on some junctions. But, whatever new rules emerged from that argument, the point would remain that anarchic behaviours such as RLJing would be outside the safety system
 
ie RLJing is wrong in principle not because it is against the law but because it disrupts the saftey system making the roads more unpredictable and less safe

Whilst you do have a point, I'm not sure whether predictability is always as much of a good thing as your argument paints - familarity breeds contempt and all that
 
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