Something needs to be done about the British mentality towards us cyclists!

[runner]

In Spain I understand in law that the cyclist is always right! and the result of this is that the roads are much safer as the motorist fears the cyclist....In the UK most of us everyday are confronted with the wrath and bad temper of some irritated motorist or red faced white van man whoose attitude quite frankly is...get out of the way you ****ing cyclist. I mention this because I read this week in cycling weekly that there is a unbelievable increase in the interest and number of cyclists and therefore we need to do something urgently about the attitude of non cyclists to make the roads a safer place....and a simple change in the law would go a long way to achieving this goal

 

[barongreenback]

As someone who drives and cycles a lot, both motorised vehicle drivers and cyclists (and pedestrians) seem to behave badly in equal measure. What's needed is proper enforcement, not additional penalties.

 

[twobiker]

It would appear that Spain had a very high rate of traffic related accidents in 2003 over 4000 were killed outright, and 4 out of 10 were over the drink drive limit, http://news-spain.euroresidentes.com/2004/04/road-safety-in-spain.htm, not much of a leader in road safety.

 

[keyser soze]

It would appear that Spain had a very high rate of traffic related accidents in 2003 over 4000 were killed outright, and 4 out of 10 were over the drink drive limit, http://news-spain.eu...ty-in-spain.htm, not much of a leader in road safety.

Probably because the cyclists always think they're right

 

[runner]

thats makes me feel better twobiker...the report appeared in Cycling+ a few months ago when looking at cycling hols and training camps in Europe. I recently returned from a weeks hol in Majorca and was amazed at the number of cycle lanes along the highways but then of course our country has evolved in a different way from Spain. Perhaps we could learn a lot from Europe ( and indeed we prob are if we look a the London blue cycle lanes) but although I live in Bristol and we are the home of sustrans etc...it still maddens me when I see a 100 metre stretch of cycle lane added along a main commuter route...as a kind of gratuitous afterthought by the council....but I divert....

 

[Tommi]

Strict liability too “contentious”, says transport minister

That was the party line in 2002, that'll probably be the party line in 2022...

 

[twobiker]

thats makes me feel better twobiker...the report appeared in Cycling+ a few months ago when looking at cycling hols and training camps in Europe. I recently returned from a weeks hol in Majorca and was amazed at the number of cycle lanes along the highways but then of course our country has evolved in a different way from Spain. Perhaps we could learn a lot from Europe ( and indeed we prob are if we look a the London blue cycle lanes) but although I live in Bristol and we are the home of sustrans etc...it still maddens me when I see a 100 metre stretch of cycle lane added along a main commuter route...as a kind of gratuitous afterthought by the council....but I divert....

I do not doubt that England could learn from other countries, but there are a lot of positives about the UK, we do not need to queue up for ages at an airport to get here, or spend time with a lot of British people, in a Pub last week for lunch it was full of Germans.

 

[dawesome]

Strict liability too “contentious”, says transport minister

That was the party line in 2002, that'll probably be the party line in 2022...

One influence that could be brought to bear is getting insurance companies on side. They wield a great deal of power and donate an awful lot of money to the tories, if they start feeling the impact of claims paid out to cyclists hurt by idiotic, reckless drivers then they could begin to lobby for assumed liability in order to prevent these injuries happening in the first place.

Helmet cams have their place to play in this, given the fact drivers routinely lie after RTCs and the police appear disinterested, at best, in cyclists' safety.

I too am starting to get mightily fed up with drivers treating cyclists as a nuisance to be bullied and harassed out of the way.

 

[Peteaud]

TBH i think it works both ways.

As a driver i curse at some of the cyclists and their lack of manners / savvy, two abreast on some of the country lanes, (read rat runs) is just crazy.

As a cyclist ive wanted to let loose at some of the idoits behind the wheel, driving way too fast down some of the above lanes.

I would love more cycle lanes and old rail lines but with this government, that wont happen.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

Strict liability too “contentious”, says transport minister
That was the party line in 2002, that'll probably be the party line in 2022...

I wrote to my MP about it earlier this year, and the response was equally disappointing. I wrote about it in a blog article here.

 

[Tommi]

I wrote to my MP about it earlier this year, and the response was equally disappointing. I wrote about it in a blog article here.

And here are the alternate approaches DfT has been focusing on in the meantime (pdf)

 

[gambatte]

As a driver i curse at some of the cyclists and their lack of manners / savvy, two abreast on some of the country lanes, (read rat runs) is just crazy.

As a cyclist ive wanted to let loose at some of the idoits behind the wheel, driving way too fast down some of the above lanes.

Think you've just answered your own observation. You're told its OK to ride 2 abreast to stop dangerous overtakes.

----

I often see cyclists riding in '2's, sometimes club cyclists, where the left hand rider is actually 100-200mm from the edge of the cariageway, usually closer to the edge of the road than the white or yellow lines, if present. The other rider, 3/4 of a bike length behind, drafting.

They're seen as 2 abreast, but generally the second cyclist is in the correct road position and the lead is too far left.

 

[Bicycle]

As a keen motorist and keen cyclist, I think the balance of the Law and the way it is enforced are about right.

I observe a greater proportion of cyclists with poor road sense than motorists.

I do not know why this is. It may be because we can cycle at any age; it may be because there is no mandatory test of competence to ride a bicycle. It may be because we cannot have the privilege of riding a bicycle taken away from us by the courts if we are seen as serial transgressors. Motorists cannot drive under a fixed age, must pass a test and can have their license withdrawn.

There may be a link; I don't know.

When a motorist drives poorly the result can be (but nis not always) more serious.

What is clear is that when a cyclist is involved in a collision it often has a marked effect on his or her physical wellbeing. This is less often the case with motorists.

This can lead to (and encourage) a "Car Naughty, Bike Nice" mentality - particularly among the 'more exposed' of these two communities.

I'm not sure this mentality is always helpful.

Going back to the OP: I am an occasional driver is Spain and find much that is alarming in road behaviour over there. I do not have the figures but am not surprised to hear that road casualties are higher there than in the UK.

My model for European driving standards and 'bicycle awareness' is either France or The Netherlands. I do not know their legal systems, but both countries seem to embrace a respect for cyclists that is palpable when in the saddle and behind the wheel. Broadly, cyclists in both countries also seem to have respect - although there is now a danger of being 'Velibbed' by a pavement-riding Parisian that I do not recall from many years ago.

NL has (I think) a better infrastructure for the cyclist. French drivers (to my mind) have a more positive attitude to fellow road users who are pedal-powered.

Of course the above are generalisations. There are monsters, fools and idiots in every country.

But by and large I think things are about as they should be in the UK.

 

[Red Light]

As a driver i curse at some of the cyclists and their lack of manners / savvy, two abreast on some of the country lanes, (read rat runs) is just crazy.

Why is it acceptable for you to have someone sitting alongside you in the car to chat to (or more usually an empty seat) that makes your car so wide its difficult to overtake, but you curse cyclists who ride alongside a friend? Is it because they are impeding your more important progress in your over-wide vehicle?

 

[400bhp]

In Spain I understand in law that the cyclist is always right! and the result of this is that the roads are much safer as the motorist fears the cyclist....In the UK most of us everyday are confronted with the wrath and bad temper of some irritated motorist or red faced white van man whoose attitude quite frankly is...get out of the way you ****ing cyclist. I mention this because I read this week in cycling weekly that there is a unbelievable increase in the interest and number of cyclists and therefore we need to do something urgently about the attitude of non cyclists to make the roads a safer place....and a simple change in the law would go a long way to achieving this goal

I disagree.

Generally, I find the vast majority of other road users are sensible.

I don't like changing things that negatively affect everyone because of a small minority.

In fact, I wouild say there is more bad temper between motor vehicles than between motor vehicles and bicycle.