Southampton riders - Itchen Bridge sign is not legal

[downfader]

For some reason the council, who I accept recently are having problems keeping up, have chosen to erect signs on the Itchen Bridge telling cyclists to dismount and walk. I dont use SPDs but a fair few going over there do, thats going to cause a few problems as they're expecting you to walk a distance of the length of the toll side of the bridge.

Add to that, my understanding is one that red signs stating "CYCLISTS! DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTPATH!" is both not a legal sign under the law and also adds to some considerable confusion to motorists that read it and then see a cyclist who is perfectly entitled to be riding. It stacks things against us.

Add to the fact the main body of the cordoned off area has been placed slighty under the brow on both sides. There have been several smack ups with cars where drivers have lost patience in one way or another and driven into another vehicle. The sweeper lads have been out in their Star Wars mobiles, but plenty of glass remains.

If you dont have to ride it and can take another route then I'd suggest doing so.

 

[Davidc]

When I lived in Southampton, in the 70s and early 80s*, when it was being built, it was flagged as being beneficial to everyone, pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists. The old chain ferry took cyclists, I was one of them, and the only problem was accommodating the number who wanted to cross on it.

Any attempt to limit access to the bridge by cyclists needs to be resisted. It goes against the principles on which the building of the bridge was based.

*I'd still be there and in a position to help in any action if I hadn't been completely shafted by a former employer.

 

[downfader]

When I lived in Southampton, in the 70s and early 80s*, when it was being built, it was flagged as being beneficial to everyone, pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists. The old chain ferry took cyclists, I was one of them, and the only problem was accommodating the number who wanted to cross on it.

Any attempt to limit access to the bridge by cyclists needs to be resisted. It goes against the principles on which the building of the bridge was based.

*I'd still be there and in a position to help in any action if I hadn't been completely shafted by a former employer.

Just these recent years, even though there has been more cyclelanes put in (often in places where we dont really need them)... I have started to see these signs pop up more reguarly. One of the guys on the CTC forum said he'd noticed the same and looked into it iirc, and found that it wasnt an official highways sign. There is some guidence on what the official signs are and its not on it.

You can imagine some select drivers seeing the cyclist who is legally riding on the main road part and taking exception as a result. Drivers are obviously allowing themselves to get aggrevated by the road works too, as I counted several speeding up there as fast as they could in the past 2 days. Some really aggressive driving.

 

[Davidc]

Drivers are obviously allowing themselves to get aggrevated by the road works too, as I counted several speeding up there as fast as they could in the past 2 days. Some really aggressive driving.

I used to work near the town side of the crossing, and used it nearly every day, either by bike or car. I can remember speeding and agressive driving being a problem as soon as the bridge was opened, with police action having to be taken to calm it down. 30 years ago drivers got stroppy about bikes being slow going up the slope to the middle, so probably not much has changed.

The chain ferry was much easier on a bike, but salty water got onto wheel rims - then mainly steel - and could write a set off in 18 months.

 

[numbnuts]

CYCLISTS! DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTPATH

cycle on footpath

I hope you don't mind, but I have sent a copy of your letter to
http://www.southamptoncyclingcampaign.org.uk/
just to find out what they think

ps I use to live and work in Woolston

 

[downfader]

cycle on footpath

I hope you don't mind, but I have sent a copy of your letter to
http://www.southampt...ampaign.org.uk/
just to find out what they think

ps I use to live and work in Woolston

Be my guest. I keep meaning to send a message to the Cycling Officer at the council but have been a bit unwell. I'm not entirely sure how to word it, the guy does a good job and I've had good info off him in the past too.

Actually speaking of the footpath, thats exactly whats been happening. I've been having to take the bus this week and the guys I usually see on the road have been scooting down the pavement instead. I presume because walking in the SPDs is a bit uncomfortable.

 

[PBancroft]

Contact your Councillor - that's what they're there for. Its their job to give the council a hard time when they do stuff that the residents don't like.

 

[numbnuts]

Hi Richard,

Thank you for alerting us to this. It has happened before and I raised the matter with the Council and signs were removed. You are quite right, they are advisory signs only.

Southampton Cycling Campaign is meeting with Matt Dean (Transport and Environment Councillor and Cycling Officer Dale Bostock on 1st Feb and we will raise problem with them.

Regards,

Lindsi Bluemel (former Chairperson Southampton Cycling Campaign)

 

[PBancroft]

For what its worth, this is the sign.

 

[downfader]

Well done Richard!

Mr Bostock is usually pretty good on things like this. His name may sound like a Bond Villian, LOL, iirc he's tackling the incorrect signage by the underpasses there too. Some new ones are said to be being made up.

At the time I said to myself they could have put ramps in and allowed slow access, but thinking after I realised some would just bomb it down there.

I also timed myself walking compared to cycling it this morning (because I'm saddo, LOL). It takes me around 50 to 100 seconds to ride over (the lesser number if there are no other cyclists or they're fast riders), but about 6 minutes on foot. I had good walking shoes though.

 

[downfader]

Just this evening I've sent a message to their cycling dept on this. I had time to observe some traffic this morning, too, so sent those observations of tailigating and a couple of close passes by motorists on others to them. I also said I have heard of different advisory signs being used over in parts of London that warn not to overtake until after the road works end. If we could have such a sign it will be more inclusive and more positive. I also told them about all the glass being swept by the machine the other day.

 

[PBancroft]

Southampton Highways have this to say (I trust they don't mind me posting this here...)

Thank you for your communication with Actionline expressing your concerns. We are sorry to hear you feel the Traffic Management towards cyclists is not up to your expectations. I hope I can try and explain the reasoning behind the decision to use this sign.

The signs used on the Itchen Bridge ‘CYCLISTS DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTWAY’ conform to Traffic Signs Regulations & General Directions 2002. The Reference No. For this sign is 7018.1. The Highway Code does not give exhaustive detail on every possible sign in use on the public highway. However, a publication by the Department for Transport called ‘Know your traffic signs’ does give details on the sign used.

The reasoning behind the use of this sign is under the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991 we and the contractor have a responsibility to place and maintain traffic signs for the guidance and direction of people using the street. We try and advise users of the bridge in the most suitable and safe way, with ALL users safety being of foremost concern. The sign was placed at the points concerned due to both sides of the road being narrowed, subsequently, two way traffic is being ‘pinched’ at these points. As I am sure you will be aware buses use this route, further reducing available space. It was therefore felt the safest way was to inform cyclists should navigate the works by dismounting. However, as the sign is informatory it is up to the cyclists discretion what they do, expecting that should a cyclist decide to cycle on the road, motorised vehicles would treat them with due care and respect. There was never an intention to degrade the respect that cyclists should have on the roads, sadly it seems the minority of motorists misinterpret the meaning of this sign, taking the opinion that cyclists should not be cycling on the road past the works at all.

As it happens, we had another concern raised over the use of this sign last Friday and as it is apparent that the sign is being misunderstood the decision was made to ask the signs be removed. Hopefully, if the sign has not already been removed, it will be this week.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused whilst these essential maintenance works are carried out on the Itchen Bridge and ask for your patience over this period.

There are a few things I take issue with (I don't think a sign in bright red reading CYCLISTS DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTWAY is intended to be understood as informatory, and I certainly don't understand why a slight narrowing of the bridge makes it a special case compared to thousands of miles of similar road across the country), but at least the sign has been removed.

 

[downfader]

Southampton Highways have this to say (I trust they don't mind me posting this here...)




There are a few things I take issue with (I don't think a sign in bright red reading CYCLISTS DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTWAY is intended to be understood as informatory, and I certainly don't understand why a slight narrowing of the bridge makes it a special case compared to thousands of miles of similar road across the country), but at least the sign has been removed.

The way I see it - if this was a real problem then they should have closed the damn bridge. The fact is they want to keep making money on the tolls so will never do that.

A red sign like that means to many: "MUST" or "YOU ARE OBLIGED". This is the impression it creates. The capitals on a red background are a strict message. I think Southampton Highways have taken the piss a bit with the reply.

I made the decision on friday to change my route until the work is complete. I rode up there this morning as it was very early (about 6.45am) and could nip in to the gaps to let traffic pass rather than have someone get tetchy on me... but in the afternoon I went the short way home (across the common, down to bitterne and over to merryoak) as I couldnt be a***ed with it.

I saw several people, even though it was quiet, walking their bikes over. I felt like saying to them "its only advisory" but then wondered if they'd had any aggro and just decided to walk it for the time being.

 

[ohnovino]

That sign is exactly the same style as the "When Red Light Shows Wait Here" signs you see at temporary traffic lights. I wonder if they're also advisory?

 

[downfader]

That sign is exactly the same style as the "When Red Light Shows Wait Here" signs you see at temporary traffic lights. I wonder if they're also advisory?

Found yet MORE roadworks in Southampton today and they had those signs. I got off, walked over the corner as I was turning left and remounted. I left a queue of about 20 cars behind me. My god riding a bike is beautiful at times.