Strange watt issue, what is "wrong"?

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gbrown

Geoff on Bkool
Location
South Somerset
my 2p worth...

As @bridgy says, power in bkool is calculated from speed, presuming a level of resistance from the trainer that is only an estimate, and is neither well calibrated nor confirmed. It merely presumes the complex physics involved in generating the resistance will be spot on at all times and doesn't measure the actual resistance/power being produced to confirm it!

There is no power meter to measure actual power, nor is the resistance accurately calibrated across the entire range of variables (an almost impossible task)!

It is certain that actual resistance will vary from presumed resistance depending on the speed and acceleration of the roller, and is likely to be higher than expected at one speed and lower than expected at another. Therefore riding at a slightly different speed may cause the estimated power to be either too high or too low, with no detectable logic for when it will be one or the other, apart from the obvious one that once the resistance is maxed out, power will read higher than actual.

Just changing gear, or pulsing your speed slightly can change the physics of the magnetic eddy current braking and cause wide tolerances to change the variation of actual to calculated power.

It is entirely possible that one rider could produce a higher FTP in bkool than another, but be lower in another test.

FTP in bkool is nothing more than a wild stab in the dark, especially on a steep incline! It's just a bit of fun and helps motivation. A bit like weighing yourself on one of those body fat scales, it is so rough and ready that it's only value is in showing a general trend over a long period of time, if all factors remain the same.

Getting your FTP from 30+ minutes rides on bkool is pretty much pointless, as each such ride will vary so widely!

If you want to judge your fitness over a period of time on bkool, I would suggest the best thing is to take official 20 minute FTP tests (the bkool 2% gradient ones) on a regular basis, as near as possible to the same conditions (time of day, rested-ness, warmed-up, gearing/tyre pressure, etc. and effort), then a sustained improvement in average power over time should show your training is working.

If you want a better estimate of FTP, you need properly calibrated equipment, with a proper power meter at the minimum.

However, even then FTP varies depending on your mood, health, rested-ness, warm up, effort, motivation, temperature, nutrition, etc. so it is always a rough guide to performance.

Geoff
 
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borchgrevink

borchgrevink

Senior Member
What about this "issue"?

How come my time was much worse (3:48 worse on such a short route) in this session when watt and watt per kg was higher, compared to earlier sessions in same route?

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/3257419

See head to head comparison. My weight was almost identical. Shouldn´t higher watt/kg give better time on same route?
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
What about this "issue"?

How come my time was much worse (3:48 worse on such a short route) in this session when watt and watt per kg was higher, compared to earlier sessions in same route?

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/3257419

See head to head comparison. My weight was almost identical. Shouldn´t higher watt/kg give better time on same route?

Looking at a couple of your rides one is a lot more steady, constant speed compared to the other which is a little more erratic. Maybe this has given you the difference in times. Bkool isn't perfect an d sometimes throws you a good result above your usual level. Best bit is you now have a target to aim for
 
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borchgrevink

borchgrevink

Senior Member
Looking at a couple of your rides one is a lot more steady, constant speed compared to the other which is a little more erratic. Maybe this has given you the difference in times. Bkool isn't perfect an d sometimes throws you a good result above your usual level. Best bit is you now have a target to aim for

Good spotting! Seems like all the ones with erratic speed are made on the new firmware (with worse times as a result). Well, maybe I have to live with the fact that Bkool isn´t accurate and that results on different firmwares will give different results.
 
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borchgrevink

borchgrevink

Senior Member
I cannot get this "issue" out of my head... I know, not healthy...

But after doing some more testing and analysing I have more info.

Check this original PB on the OLD firmware:

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/2331620
Time: 31:57 Watt/kg: 3.8

now, compare it with this on the NEW firmware some months later (with better physical shape, I think, based on outdoor tests):

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/3257419
Time: 35:46 Watt/kg: 3.9

MUCH worse time but higher watt/kg.

And now, the REALLY interesting test on a borrowed roller with the OLD firmware again:

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/3396643
Time: 31:40 Watt/kg: 3.8

Compare the power and speed graph on these and see that the new firmware seems a bit more choppy. The OLD fw also gave MUCH worse time compared to the old one. Obviously I don't know which one is more correct, but it is a bit frustrating not being able to compare rides on the old and new fw.

Thoughts?
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
The only way to get accurate repeatedly results is to use a trainer with a calibrated power meter. The bkool doesn't have a power meter so software/firmware changes will alter the way it calculates speed and power. Having used the bkool pro for about a year the results are more realistic with the latest version albeit very generous on speed and power. My Wahoo Kickr records my efforts much slower and alot less power, also alot more resistance when climbing steep gradients.

Basically you need to reset your results with new major versions of software/firmware. A good guide to your fitness is to compare against similar results of other riders and see if you begin to post better times. Join in the racing leagues and you will soon find who you can beat and those who you need to beat.
 
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borchgrevink

borchgrevink

Senior Member
I know it's not a calibrated pro roller, but to me it seems the latest firmware varies a lot more under same conditions compared to the old one, and then it is much harder to compare my own workouts to see progress than before. And THAT bothers me a bit.
 

JuhaL

Guru
I have noticed that some sessions avg.slope and gradients are change, so sometimes that made impossible to compare your older results to new one. For example 46,4km Luyando-Bilbao session is change after i made my personal best, now the climbs are harder.
 
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