Time to give us cyclists a bit more respect

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

PBancroft

Senior Member
Location
Winchester
Origamist said:

Personally, I don't think the general population will pay a blind bit of notice, except to self congratulate the success of Team GB, because, y'know, it's the guy drinking beer on the sofa wot won it.

However, it is about time that Matthew Parris offered a decent apology for what he said, because otherwise articles like this will carry on haunting him for the rest of his career.
 

LLB

Guest
I think the reasons for the derision need to be identified and addressed before any gravitational shift will take place. IMO It is more than just the Clarkson or Parris effect which colours peoples opinion of cyclists, and I don't think people identify velodrome racing with what goes on in the streets.
 

LLB

Guest
Kaipaith said:
Personally, I don't think the general population will pay a blind bit of notice, except to self congratulate the success of Team GB, because, y'know, it's the guy drinking beer on the sofa wot won it.

However, it is about time that Matthew Parris offered a decent apology for what he said, because otherwise articles like this will carry on haunting him for the rest of his career.

Thinking a bit deeper on this, I certainly think that the attempts by the ecomentalist lobby to make cycling the great green hope has damaged the image of cycling as a recreational pastime, and IMO has made a vulnerable group on the road a target of people who are fed up with being preached to and taxed heavily by those they see as one and the same (irrespective of whether there is any substance in it).

I noticed in a couple of recent trips abroad that cyclists are given a wider berth, and that the vast majority seemed to look like hobbyists, not mentalists on the continent (IE look like they are out for a good time, and not to try and set an example to others)
 

LLB

Guest
spindrift said:
Some of the comments below are a bit shoot.

Try looking at the bigger picture spinners. I'm not saying I'm right, but it is food for thought.

Don't you feel that resentment could change otherwise sensible people into bitter and twisted individuals looking for a soft target ?
 

ChrisKH

Guru
Location
Essex
linfordlunchbox said:
Try looking at the bigger picture spinners. I'm not saying I'm right, but it is food for thought.

Don't you feel that resentment could change otherwise sensible people into bitter and twisted individuals looking for a soft target ?

Which is why there is a need for a change in the law. No amount of education or Gold Medals will change the entrenched attitude of drivers.
 

spindrift

New Member
Kaipaith said:
Personally, I don't think the general population will pay a blind bit of notice, except to self congratulate the success of Team GB, because, y'know, it's the guy drinking beer on the sofa wot won it.

However, it is about time that Matthew Parris offered a decent apology for what he said, because otherwise articles like this will carry on haunting him for the rest of his career.

Great comment:


"They make no contribution in road taxes, yet get their own lanes. Their not obliged to be insured to cycle on roads, and in the event of an accident involving a motor vehicle, the car is at fault regardless. Their not requried to undertake any kind of testing to ensure thier fit to cycle on roads and so frequently disregard basic rules of the road and finally, treat pedestrians with utter contempt."
The same is true of pedestrians, of course.
A few quibbles, however., on the basis that you're almost entirely wrong about everything:
- Motorists contribute precisely bugger all in "road taxes" but they do pay a tax for the privilege of owning a motor vehicle. The Queens Highway is free to all and funded through general taxation instead of a ring-fenced fund.
- Bikes aren't required to be insured because the amount of damage they can cause is likely to be within the financial means of the cyclist. They are still required to pay for that damage.
- In the event of an accident the car driver is not held to be at fault automatically, especially if they put their foot down and get the hell out of there before the cyclist can take down their number.
- Disregarding the rules of the road is something that neither horse riders, motorists, cyclists nor stilt-walkers have a monopoly on, and if you can't see that whenever you're driving then I suggest that you stop driving immediately and see an optician before you kill someone.
Most cyclists appear to have a healthy respect for basic rules like giving way, if only because a polystyrene bucket on your head carries remarkably little weight in an argument about who was allowed to move first.
- Lacking respect for pedestrians is about more than the tits who cycle on the pavement (who'd no doubt justify their obnoxious behaviour by mentioning the lack of respect for them by cars, which implies that they believe they're merely transposing the attitude problem down the food chain). We could equally cite car drivers, who believe that the pavement is perfectly legitimate ground for them as long as they require it to squeeze past another vehicle or put their hazard lights on, as if that magically makes them into some kind of quantum material that refuses to interact with other matter.
- Finally, yes, cyclists don't have to pass a test. I guess this must have been a multiple-choice rant, where even the biggest idiot can get something right by ticking random boxes. Internet posters, eh? I'd ban the lot of them, me.
 

John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
Linf, it's part and parcel of an attitude that cars and motor transport are the only vehicles with a right to the road, and a definition of "making progress" that sees getting past what's in front of you as the most desirable thing to do, regardless of road conditions.

Resentment at being preached at could be part of it too, but I think the other factors are probably more significant. I don't think even a TdeF winner would change the attitudes of the vast majority in this country, tbh, the car is not so much primus inter pares, as primus full stop on the road.
 

LLB

Guest
User1314 said:
Hmmm…

Bottom line is that we have a billion pound motoring industry in the UK. They need to rely on sales as a cornerstone of the economy. This is bolstered by £800M advertising pa – hence the support for the motor vehicle given by the likes of the national press.

The motor vehicle is sold as a thing of freedom. Which it is, to be honest. I have a car and find it essential for long journeys with the family. However, it has been over-sold as a thing of freedom. The 4x4 pictured driving along a long Saharan road with no other cars in sight is more likely to be driven through a narrow suburban street at 5mph, with cars parked on either side, with a little mum in the driving seat, her nose perched on top of the wheel. Or driven by Bob from Bromley who drives with one hand stretched out to make him think he is a hunky adventurer driving through the Serengetti. They see a 50 metre free stretch of road, of course they’ll hammer it, as that is what the advertising showed the 4x4 tank doing.

This, together with the selling of the car as a tool of aspiration and status, alongside aping David Beckham’s latest haircut and what the neighbours are driving, means that practicality and common-sense is just thrown out of the window. So we have the ridiculous scenario of, in town, cities and villages up and down the land, of individuals sitting alone in a tin-box, about 10 foot long and five foot wide (and sometimes over six foot high) in a long queue of like-minded individuals. In London I still find it mind-boggling that people do that.

This ethos is further intensified by a generation of parents and kids who think that they will dissolve if they go out into the rain; that walking more then half-a-mile is akin to climbing Everest; and that only the poor don’t drive.

So, for example, the house opposite where I live has three cars. The family consists of grandparents (one set off); mum, dad and two kids. The dad has a BMW soft-top; she has a 4x4. The grandparents have a people-carrier.

The bloke next door to us is a chef, his wife a check-out attendant. They both have a car. He works three miles away. They have two daughters. They both have a car each. Typical of households up and down the land I wager. (Who says driving is too expensive! Too cheap!)

So these people see a cyclist they think poor; deviant and ruining my marketing car dream by slowing me down; being in my way; by simply being “weird”.

Winning Golds is nice. But on a practical level what is need is oomph from Local Govt so that the priority in urban areas is:

Ped
Public Transport
Cycle
Motorcycle
Motor vehicle.

Rant rant rant

On the other side of this argument is the dynamics of ownership costs.

I took a spin down to Bath on sunday with my O/H for an afternoon out. 100 mile round trip and cost about £15 in fuel (ish) in a 1.6 shopping trolley type car driven across country.

Had I been using the 4x4, it would have cost at least £30 to do the same trip.
Now because I've SORN'd the 4x4, it is only costing me an annual insurance premium as it is laid up, but had I paid £400 per year VED (as some will be doing), I would want to use it even if the fuel cost was a killer to justify the payment in VED.

What this means in reality is that smaller cars add to congestion because their owners are a lot more cavalier about using them for even smaller journey's.

This makes the increases in VED on large thirsty cars counter productive IMO

When I was driving it as a commuter, I watched every mile I put on it as fueling such a vehicle is such a burden for the return, and the reality is that I wouldn't have done 100 miles in it for an afternoon out as I could think of better ways of spending the money I coughed on fuel.

Does this make sense ?
 
User1314 said:
Winning Golds is nice. But on a practical level what is need is oomph from Local Govt so that the priority in urban areas is:

Ped
Public Transport
Cycle
Motorcycle
Motor vehicle.

The Scottish government policy has been exactly that for the last three years and its usually backed up by LA planners but I don't think they communicate it very well to Joe Bloggs on the street.

Edit its actually:
Ped
Cycle
PT
M/C
Car
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
linfordlunchbox said:
Does this make sense ?

No. It's bollocks.

The VED and insurance (and depreciation if relevant) are a sunk cost. The only rational decision for any given trip is based on the marginal cost - the cost of the fuel. The only rational decision across the year is based on the total economic value - including VED, insurance and depreciation.

In both cases the small car wins out. It's also less polluting, in particulates, noise and CO2, takes up less road space, takes up less car park space and does less damage to the road. So you're actually being unselfish.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
linfordlunchbox said:
Thinking a bit deeper on this, I certainly think that the attempts by the ecomentalist lobby to make cycling the great green hope has damaged the image of cycling as a recreational pastime, and IMO has made a vulnerable group on the road a target of people who are fed up with being preached to and taxed heavily by those they see as one and the same (irrespective of whether there is any substance in it).

I noticed in a couple of recent trips abroad that cyclists are given a wider berth, and that the vast majority seemed to look like hobbyists, not mentalists on the continent (IE look like they are out for a good time, and not to try and set an example to others)

Bollocks again. The environmental lobby is just as active on the continent as it is in this country. In the city with the largest population of cyclists (London), they are pretty evenly split between the fakengers, the TdF wannabes and the people who are obviously out for a good time.
 

LLB

Guest
srw said:
Bollocks again. The environmental lobby is just as active on the continent as it is in this country. In the city with the largest population of cyclists (London), they are pretty evenly split between the fakengers, the TdF wannabes and the people who are obviously out for a good time.

source ?
 
Top Bottom