To train, or not to train? That is the question.

[oldfatfool]

Reading various posts and many people don't seem to advocate training for a tour.

In July I will be attempting my first loaded tour, now it may be that I am jumping in at the deep end but my first day works out at 82km with 3000m of gain http://www.brytonsport.com/mapTrackView?id=455557 and subsequent days are pretty much the same.

Currently I am probably doing at least a 100km ride a month sometimes 2, 3 or 4 times a week I will put in an hilly 30 - 40 km (3% ave grad). These are unloaded. I figure an extra 20kg when the bike is fully loaded. I intend to do 3 day, tour over the next couple of weeks.

So do you think this is realistic or am I overthinking and training too much/ not enough.

Those people who say they don't train specifically for a tour,how much riding do you do as a matter of norm? and would you train in view of my starting day?

Please excuse me if I am asking stupid questions.

 

[Ticktockmy]

With the riding you are doing you should be ok, however, most of us train to get used to riding with a fully laden Bike, as the handling can be quite different, so I would suggest you should at least do a few of your 100Kmrides with your touring Kit on-board. This will allow you to look at how you load the Bike, and learn how things like wind and road conditions can effort your riding when you have a fully laden bike.

 

[mcr]

Personally, given a climb like that, I'd take the train. (Sorry )

 

[psmiffy]

I am not going to advocate against training - in fact the fitter you are the better - I however dont generally train for tours - just keep to my normal fairly relaxed fitness regime - it is rare if ever that I run out of legs while i am touring - it is generally the upper body that limits me.

However, that is a big first day on a loaded bike on a first tour - I would make sure that you have some idea of your capabilities of lugging a loaded bike uphill in advance and cut your cloth to suit.

My first big climb was Comet de Rosemunde - started off about 4pm - "knock that off easy and be down the backside into BstM before dark no problem" - didnt work out like that

 

[psmiffy]

As an aside I think bryton may overestimate the vertical climbing - checked it against biketoaster - and then checked a climb I know from my diaries the vertical ascent of -Martigny - Beufort via Farclaz and Saisies 2930m according to my diary - bike toaster came out more or less spot on both for distance and climbing

 

[doog]

Looking at that I would say prepare for some serious walking / bike pushing . That is an evil first day fully loaded. Trust me.. you will suffer.

 

[snorri]

Those people who say they don't train specifically for a tour,how much riding do you do as a matter of norm? and would you train in view of my starting day?

Having said I don't train for tours I feel I should respond, but really cannot offer advice as the little tour planning I do ensures I avoid terrain of the nature you intend to visit.
Still, I can understand the attraction for some, so good luck!

 

[hubbike]

I think the reason people don't of advise training for tours is because it's generally (excluding some of my mates) a non-competitive activity. The context of training depends on what you aim to achieve. Anyone reasonably fit can walk a marathon without any training if they take a weekend over it. To get under 3 hours you need to train.

Especially on a long tour, how do you train? You can train for 6 months to run a marathon on a single day. How do you train to go cycling everyday for six months? Answer: the first month IS the training!

For a short strenuous tour in the Alps fitness will definitely help. Just get in shape. Fit a mix of biking, running, swimming into your normal life. But don't panic about it too much, its all for fun right?!

 

[Ajay]

I think Bryton over-estimates the climbing on your route as psmiffy says. Here it is on bikeroutetoaster (yes, I should be working, but hey)
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=384768 with 2122m. I think this is pretty accurate as brt always tallys with "official" routes I've done eg Raid Pyreneen.
Even so, that's still a lot of climbing in 50 miles, but you do most of it in one long 25 mile slog! Take heart from the fact that you won't face the gradients over there that you're used to riding here - all those hairpins and wiggles on the map mean sensibly engineered roads, not the silly 15%, 20%+ stuff we have to wrestle up here.
I don't think you can train "too much", but it shouldn't become a chore, and you dont want to loose your cycling mojo. I reckon you're in shape to do the trip now.
Be absolutely brutal with your packing list - leave at least half of it at home - you really dont need it all, after a few long days in the mountains and you'll start to hate every gram of non-essential kit! Front and rear panniers - are you sure!!
This bit is hard to train for, but try and prepare yourself, mentally at least, for the heat. It will be hot down there in july, and it will sap your energy on the long climbs, so factor in more time than you might think you need.
See you for the forum ride on saturday?

 

[oldfatfool]

I think the reason people don't of advise training for tours is because it's generally (excluding some of my mates) a non-competitive activity. The context of training depends on what you aim to achieve. Anyone reasonably fit can walk a marathon without any training if they take a weekend over it. To get under 3 hours you need to train.

I am used to early mornings so was planning departing before 8am each morning and taking a good 7-8 hours to complete each day. So aiming to average around 15kmh and 2-3hours in stoppages. Does that sound a reasonable pace/ strategy for the terrain?

Looking at that I would say prepare for some serious walking / bike pushing . That is an evil first day fully loaded. Trust me.. you will suffer.

By day I am a postman so used to walking 3hrs + with a fair amount of weight on my back, but yeh expecting to suffer.

 

[oldfatfool]

I think Bryton over-estimates the climbing on your route as psmiffy says. Here it is on bikeroutetoaster (yes, I should be working, but hey)
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=384768 with 2122m. I think this is pretty accurate as brt always tallys with "official" routes I've done eg Raid Pyreneen.
Even so, that's still a lot of climbing in 50 miles, but you do most of it in one long 25 mile slog! Take heart from the fact that you won't face the gradients over there that you're used to riding here - all those hairpins and wiggles on the map mean sensibly engineered roads, not the silly 15%, 20%+ stuff we have to wrestle up here.
I don't think you can train "too much", but it shouldn't become a chore, and you dont want to loose your cycling mojo. I reckon you're in shape to do the trip now.
Be absolutely brutal with your packing list - leave at least half of it at home - you really dont need it all, after a few long days in the mountains and you'll start to hate every gram of non-essential kit! Front and rear panniers - are you sure!!
This bit is hard to train for, but try and prepare yourself, mentally at least, for the heat. It will be hot down there in july, and it will sap your energy on the long climbs, so factor in more time than you might think you need.
See you for the forum ride on saturday?

Hi Ajay,yes I was hoping to tour over on Friday as a bit of practice but the weather forecast is crap over here Friday and sat night/ sun is predicting heavy rain and high winds for Lancaster. Dependent on this changing otherwise I think I will drive over on the saturday.

Bryton uses Google mapping but tends to go over obstacles rather than through them (ie tunnels) so yes it does over estimate (I hope!!)

Packing list (tell me what you think)

Front panniers:

Clothes in one
1 cycling shorts
2 padded under crackers
1 shorts
1 long trousers
2 cycling ss jerseys
1 ss casual shirt
2 ls HH top
1 compression top
3 pairs socks
Thermal tights
1 under crackers
1 speedos

Sleep in 1

Bag
mat
liner

Rear panniers

in 1

1/2 trangier
wash kit
cup
1st aid
waterproofs
arm/leg warmers
Gillet
gloves
overshoes
bungee cords

in 1

Tools
Tubes
Spares (chain, spokes, brake pads etc)
Suntan lotion
Towel
Torch
Batteries
Charge
food (when bought)
Glasses


On bike

Tent
solar panel
1.5lt water
700ml fuel meths

Barbag

Cash, phone, camera passport

Gps

Camelbak

Although the time of year was as much dictated by the coach timetable, the Bonnet doesn't open well June and even in July snow is quite possible

 

[Ticktockmy]

I am used to early mornings so was planning departing before 8am each morning and taking a good 7-8 hours to complete each day. So aiming to average around 15kmh and 2-3hours in stoppages. Does that sound a reasonable pace/ strategy for the terrain?

By day I am a postman so used to walking 3hrs + with a fair amount of weight on my back, but yeh expecting to suffer.

Timing sound ok, the Big E factor always seem to come at the end of the day when you are getting tired and weary, when you least expect it some rather large and steep hill appears, at the beginning of the day it would only would have been a little or shallow sloped hill, so if you plan to pace yourself as you seem to have, that hill when it sneaks up to surprise you will not be so bad, so always try to keep something in reserve for the end of the day, try to balance your food and liquid intake through the day to keep your energy levels high, that will help so much.

 

[Ticktockmy]

I notice that your practice tour has been put off because of bad weather, what a chance to see if you have got it right, It might rain on your main tour, so a chance to practice your wet weather drill near to home should not be missed.
Regarding your packing list, I always have one rear pannier i call my wet Pannier, so things like the tent, washing kit, anything that does not matter if it get wet goes in that one, stuff that need to be kept dry goes in the other one, spare clothes, sleeping bag etc goes in the Dry Pannier. If I am using front panniers, then I carry my waterproofs, cooking equipment and food for the day in the front panniers along with my tools and spare inner tube.

 

[oldfatfool]

I notice that your practice tour has been put off because of bad weather, what a chance to see if you have got it right, It might rain on your main tour, so a chance to practice your wet weather drill near to home should not be missed.
Regarding your packing list, I always have one rear pannier i call my wet Pannier, so things like the tent, washing kit, anything that does not matter if it get wet goes in that one, stuff that need to be kept dry goes in the other one, spare clothes, sleeping bag etc goes in the Dry Pannier. If I am using front panniers, then I carry my waterproofs, cooking equipment and food for the day in the front panniers along with my tools and spare inner tube.

Everything that needs to be kept dry I have put in the front, as it happens clothes just about equal the weight of my sleeping bag , mat etc. Also my front panniers are Ortiliebs which everyone seems to rate very highly. Everything in the rears is bagged up and pretty much doesn't matter.

Fronts weigh in at 2.5kg each rears about 5kg each

I know I really should go out this weekend regardless of weather as I won't be able to avoid whatever gets chucked at me in France, but I would prefer to have a dry 'dry' run,especially as I haven't even had chance to chuck this tent up yet

 

[doog]

By day I am a postman so used to walking 3hrs + with a fair amount of weight on my back, but yeh expecting to suffer.

I appreciate my advice wasnt that helpful. I will try and offer up some sort of comparison. This route is 85km , ascent of 1236m and I did it on day 2 of my tour last year over the Coll d'Ares.

http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx?course=263671

Looking at your posts I was about the same level as you preparation wise, I commute every day, used to be a long distance runner blah blah, im mid 40's. I didnt really train just a few 30-40 mile days in advance. On that route I was carrying 20kg all in, tent etc.

If you look on my bikeroutetoaster link and go on the summary page .Between 10-20k I did the Capsacosta up to to 870 meters - that had me blowing I can tell you. Between 20 and 40km it was a gradual incline until I reached the 40km mark. I then 10km of switchbacks to the summit, walking the last few KM's..... cursing the weight I was carrying. I was stopping on every switchback, constant eating and fluid intake.

When I reached the top I was wasted. Luckily I had a 30km descent, however on the decent my legs seized up, I was barely able to turn the pedals. The next day I was so shell shocked I changed my proposed route to avoid another 1500 metre climb.

Looking at your route that ascent between 20 and 38 km looks a brute. I dont think I would attempt that on a carbon road bike let alone fully loaded but there again I am getting on a bit.

I wish you all the best, what a challenge- I think if it was me doing your route then yes I would do some serious training having experienced what I did (however as a postie you are probably a lot fitter than me and may cope well)