Wheels

[manualtypist]

Hi,

Wasn't sure where to ask this question so I thought this might be the right place.
Here's the situation: I have an old Ralegh Mixte which has the old imperial 27 steel wheels/rims. The problem with these is that, with the rims being seel, my brakes are close to useless when it rains. Complete disaster waiting to happen and it's really starting to worry me now that we are getting a lot more rain!

Now, I don't know much (close to nothing) about the technical aspects of bikes/bike mechanics. I was told that I could have standard sized wheels (with nice/safe alloy rims) fitted onto my bike if I had the back part of the bike stretched out and the callipers replaced with long drop ones.

I'd be grateful if anyone could advise me further on having this done and also if anyone knows of anywhere reliable in London (west) to have this done (somewhere I'm also not going to be ripped off just because I don't know much).

Thanks in advance.

 

[swee'pea99]

Hi

Good move! Steelrims are always bad news. Fortunately the switch is much easier than someone has led you to believe. At worst you'll need to replace the brakes with longer drop ones. You may not even need them - your current ones may work. But there's no way you'll need your bike 'stretched'!

 

[gbb]

Spacing the rear triangle for new wheels is do-able yourself, with care.

Most modern wheels are going to be 8/9/10 speed spacing so do you intend to upgrade your transmission, or can you get the relevent cassette that'll work with your gears.

If your experience is like mine, dont expect good braking from deep drop calipers...i just can't get good braking with mine (a mix of Alhonga and Tektro|..although perhaps thats my pads.

You'll almost certainly need 'nutted' calipers, as oposed to modern allen bolted calipers. They're a little harder to get hold of.

IF the caliper bridge on the frame (where you bolt your caliper to) is tubular (as opposed to a flate plate)...beware as you stretch the rear triangle. When i did mine it looked like it was going to split the weld. Probably wouldnt have, but i just felt uneasy about it.

I'll come back with more if i remember.

 

[fixedfixer]

If you are otherwise happy with the bike, are ok with limited choice of gears / tyres and don't want to spend lots then a new pair of 27 inch wheels with alloy rims might be the answer. Ebay Currently some here for a 7 speed and not a bad price for a buy it now. They will most likely be unbranded parts but at that price for a pair you might think it is worth it.

Things to check, measure the distance between the drop outs (bits where the rear wheel attaches to frame) on your bike. This is the Over Locknut Dimention (old). Then ring the seller to make sure these wheels are the same size.

You may find that you don't need to stretch the frame, keep your existing tyres, your old brakes will work (better) with new pads suited to alloy, and your gears should still work.

Just a thought from a cheapskate....

 

[PpPete]

Have a look at your brakes... There is a metal holder behind the pad itself - bolted through a slot in the caliper so you can adjust the pads up & down. Where are yours mounted in the slot? If you can move the pads down by 4 mm you do not need to change the brake calipers for a standard 700c wheel.

You could just buy a 700c front wheel if that's the case. The OLD is the same at the front, so easy to change yourself, and to adjust the brake pads to match up your new rim - just undo the domed nut and retighten in the new position. Most of the braking force comes from the front anyway, so you'll get most of the benefit.

 

[manualtypist]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Definitely not something I'm going to attempt on my own (will probably screw it up big time and end up with no bike!). Instead it's something I'm going to ask for for Christmas/b-day present (practical).

Thought about getting alloy 27 inch rims, but was told that the quality would probably be no better or maybe even worse than what I have currently.
Have decided to go with spacing the rear and getting new standard sized rims/wheels. Will give me far greater options in the future when it comes to tyres.

The breaks don't drop down far, but I suppose that's something I can have changed along with the wheels when I get it done. It's a five speed derailleur.

Now all I need is a reliable place in West London to get this all done. I've been quoted various prices from various places and not sure which to go with.
Being female is always a distinct disadvantage here...like with cars and garages...an easy rip off target!

 

[TheDoctor]

27" alloy wheels are not difficult to get hold of - my LBS has them.
Honestly, even alloy rims 'of the same quality' you have now will be light-years ahead for braking.
Tdrinka of this parish rates Brixton Cycles IIRC - give them a shout?

 

[fixedfixer]

Thought about getting alloy 27 inch rims, but was told that the quality would probably be no better or maybe even worse than what I have currently.

Hang on, are we talking 'quality' as in build standard? That may or may not be the case. However if they are talking quality of stopping power an alloy 27 inch will definitely stop quicker than a steel regardless of whether it is 27 or 700c.

Next thought is that new 700 wheels, new 700 tyres, the frame spacing, new gears (as new wheels are unlikely to be able to use your 5 speed system) new brakes and cables etc is all adding up in cost. You might want to compare that with the cost of a new bike.

Keep asking the question here - you'll get lots of views and ideas.

 

[tyred]

Nothing wrong with the cheap 27" wheels you can buy from Ebay. There is still a decent selection of tyres available as well despite what people say. Conti Ultra sports are nice tyres for the money in my opinion and come in both 27 x 1 1/8" and 27 x 1 1/4". Marathons are also available if you want puncture protection and the Michelin World Tour is a nice basic tyre. 

The only thing about these wheels is that in my experience, the hubs that come in them do not have enough grease and the bearings are overtightened, but this is easily rectified.

 

[Sun Superlight]

An interesting aside to the question of using the 700 rims to replace 27" rims on old bikes.
I recently had a puncture in the front wheel of my old Galaxy which has steel 27" rims and I temporarily borrowed the alloy rimmed 700 wheel from my Carlton. The brake blocks of course needed lowering by about 8mm to reach the replacement rim.
With the then full expectation of better braking I was surprised to find that it was actually worse and even after bedding in was not as good as on the steel 27" rim.
The lowering of the blocks in the slots brings a mechanical disadvantage to the brakes but the effect of rain on steel rims brings a bigger one.

 

[Baggy]

Nothing wrong with the cheap 27" wheels you can buy from Ebay. There is still a decent selection of tyres available as well despite what people say. Conti Ultra sports are nice tyres for the money in my opinion and come in both 27 x 1 1/8" and 27 x 1 1/4". Marathons are also available if you want puncture protection and the Michelin World Tour is a nice basic tyre.

The only thing about these wheels is that in my experience, the hubs that come in them do not have enough grease and the bearings are overtightened, but this is easily rectified.

I've just fited a pair of new 27" wheels with Quando hubs and Ultra Sport tyres to my Carlton - the hubs do indeed need a little bit more grease. The brakes work much, much better than on steel rims - have also fitted some koolstop continental pads that probably make a huge difference, too.

 

[porteous]

I seem to recall there were two types of brake block in the 60s-80s, specific to steel or alloy wheels. I would try to find some blocks made for steel wheels first and try them. If the chrome has gone then all the advice here about cheap modern 27" alloys is sound, I restore a good few 27" frames with them and they are fine as long as you check the bearings and re-grease before fitting.

 

[PpPete]

An interesting aside to the question of using the 700 rims to replace 27" rims on old bikes.
I recently had a puncture in the front wheel of my old Galaxy which has steel 27" rims and I temporarily borrowed the alloy rimmed 700 wheel from my Carlton. The brake blocks of course needed lowering by about 8mm to reach the replacement rim.
With the then full expectation of better braking I was surprised to find that it was actually worse and even after bedding in was not as good as on the steel 27" rim.
The lowering of the blocks in the slots brings a mechanical disadvantage to the brakes but the effect of rain on steel rims brings a bigger one.

Interesting... what sort of brakes?
I restored an old 27" wheel Galaxy for my son a few years ago. When I tested it, really didnt like the stopping power of the Weinmann centre-pulls so I put some Alhongas long drops on for him - so as to be able to change to 700c wheel as & when. That change to 700c has now been made and the stopping power (subjectively measured by me) is at least as good as the wide (Cyclo-X style) cantis on my own much more recent Galaxy, even though he has the bog-standard Alhonga pads and I have Kool-Stop Salmons.

 

[tyred]

I seem to recall there were two types of brake block in the 60s-80s, specific to steel or alloy wheels. I would try to find some blocks made for steel wheels first and try them. If the chrome has gone then all the advice here about cheap modern 27" alloys is sound, I restore a good few 27" frames with them and they are fine as long as you check the bearings and re-grease before fitting.

Indeed they are and as someone who has a few old bikes with steel wheels, I got some NOS pads leather faced pads for my R20 which give a pretty decent brake even in the wet. I was impressed and then bought some new Fibrax leather faced pads for my other two steel wheeled bikes and they are pathetic, wet or dry and I removed them and fitted rubber pads again. I just don't understand why the Fibrax ones don't work. 


My understanding is that the harder the rubber compound, the better. Cheap pads often work quite well, the modern high end ones which are very soft and work well on alloy wheels in the wet are hopeless on steel (or so my LBS man told me). Leather works better in the rain but not as well in the dry.

 

[brokenbetty]

My understanding is that the harder the rubber compound, the better. Cheap pads often work quite well, the modern high end ones which are very soft and work well on alloy wheels in the wet are hopeless on steel (or so my LBS man told me). Leather works better in the rain but not as well in the dry.

That makes sense - I recently switched some wheels from steel to alloy but kept the old pads on til I got new ones. They scraped gauges into the new rims within a mile! Definitely way harder.