Another Cyclist dies at Bow Roundabout

[4F]

Looking at that video clip, it looks like the cyclist jumped the second light into the oncoming lorry.

It is not all about bad vehicle drivers. There are enough awful cyclists around as well. The only way to solve this problem is to separate cyclists and lorries/buses. How they do that in London is anyone's guess.

But it does nobody any good at all pointing the finger before all the facts are known. I certainly would not trust the newspapers to report the facts.

We have people on here talking about cutting tyres. How childish is that? Some people need to grow up.

Steve

Or the lorry jumped the light into the cyclist, I would agree that it would be best to wait until the facts are known.

RIP Venera.

 

[HLaB]

I think this is one of the most depressing threads I've ever read

 

[gaz]

I think this is one of the most depressing threads I've ever read

It gets worse, another rider was killed last night on the same road as the one in the morning.

 

[HLaB]

It gets worse, another rider was killed last night on the same road as the one in the morning.

Like but dont like, I read about one cyclist getting hit by a bus in South Croydon and a hit and run by a truck outside the city

 

[Crankarm]

I'm not sure that's really a way forward. TFL can't be held completely responsible for the design of the junction. Admittedly from the video above it's definitely lacking, but the heart of the problem is that the junction was only ever designed for motor vehicles and there's only so much you can retrofit and redesign to improve facilities for cyclists for something built 40 years ago.

Indeed money talks, but if TFL were found liable for millions, it's only money that would then be pulled out of other budgets (including cycling) next year. In a way, I think everybody would lose then.

Somebody else mentioned a seperate footbridge or overpass for cyclists. That would certainly be money well spent by the looks of it.

Eh??? You contradict yourself sir.

TFL has a duty of care to road users of this junction as the body now responsible for it's design. The fact that so many cyclists have been killed here MAY well put them ON NOTICE and the fact that they APPEAR to have done little to make it safer, even though cyclists are STILL being killed here, COULD be viewed as negligence. I think a case brought against them by the estate(s) of the deceased(s) against them will be the only way to get them to do something to improve safety for cyclists and peds using this junction. Looking at the pic posted by Beebo why can't the railings be removed and cyclists be permitted to use the pavement? There could be a cycle phased controlled crossing to allow cyclists to cross the road whilst traffic is stationary. Alternatively a separate segregated cycle lane with a high kerb to prevent vehicles crossing into the cycle lane as they negotiate the roundabout.

 

[Amanda P]

I heard about this spate of fatal collisions on the radio yesterday. That's the first time I've ever heard a news item concerning fatal collisions other than multi-vehicle motorway pile-ups.

I'm almost in tears reading all this, and very, very angry that there could be a junction like this anywhere with no provision for anyone not driving to cross it. Does not being in control of a motor vehicle make us sub-human, that we have to put our lives at the mercy of those who are?

And it brings it all closer to home when a close relative of a victim chips in - thankyou so much for that, Dina. We sometimes need to be reminded that victims are not just statistics - they're someone's sister or mother or father or son or best mate...

The one chink of light is that the national media are starting to report these incidents. If people are constantly reminded, and can no longer pretend they're not happening, perhaps we'll finally begin to change attitudes and things will improve. Perhaps the time is approaching when an Amsterdam Museumplein-style protest in London will be appropriate and effective.

 

[Linford]

5 riders in 2 weeks....I'm normally a bit nonchalant about this sort of thing, but 5 riders in a couple of weeks....not good

I'm wondering if it is the time of year which is effecting things. We had 3 car users die in 2 different accidents on the same road on a single morning last week just above Gloucester.

I know there has been claims in the past that more cyclists actually make the roads safer for cyclists, but this is contradictory to the claims that there are 3 times as many cyclists in London now as there was 10 years ago....which one is right ?

 

[ttcycle]

Guys, posting as a moderator, can we bring this back on track and not trade personal insults?
Cycling deaths are an emotive subject but please remember that on occasion relatives and friends of the cyclist might happen across this forum so please be respectful.

 

[Buddfox]

Looking at that video clip, it looks like the cyclist jumped the second light into the oncoming lorry.

It is not all about bad vehicle drivers. There are enough awful cyclists around as well. The only way to solve this problem is to separate cyclists and lorries/buses. How they do that in London is anyone's guess.

But it does nobody any good at all pointing the finger before all the facts are known. I certainly would not trust the newspapers to report the facts.

We have people on here talking about cutting tyres. How childish is that? Some people need to grow up.

Steve

They did... but the point is it's very confusingly laid out. Most road users don't expect a red light 3 metres further on from a light that has just changed green, so they assume (quite naturally IMHO) that the second red light is equivalent to the red light for the cars and just set at a position which allows it to be seen further back in traffic. Combined with the aggressive sequencing which sees an instant change for the traffic coming from the right, what has been created is an incredibly dangerous junction for cyclists and one where, even if a cyclist did run the red light, they could legitimately be claimed not to be at fault if they are hit by a vehicle coming from the right.

 

[ManiaMuse]

I'm wondering if it is the time of year which is effecting things. We had 3 car users die in 2 different accidents on the same road on a single morning last week just above Gloucester.

I think the time of year is definitely a factor. Last week the schools were back and the weather was fairly miserable so lots of people are back in their cars. Not a good combination in conjunction with the clocks going back catching out cyclists with no lights/cars with lights out.

People take a while to get used to driving/cycling in these conditions, especially at dawn/dusk. I've noticed the sun is at a very awkward angle in the sky as well when I commute in the morning.

 

[jefmcg]

Guys, posting as a moderator, can we bring this back on track and not trade personal insults?
Cycling deaths are an emotive subject but please remember that on occasion relatives and friends of the cyclist might happen across this forum so please be respectful.

We have a relative here on page 3, Dina, the victims sister.

Under those circumstance, I think the more hostile responses should be purged, or spun off into a separate thread.

Dina, my heart goes out to you and your family. And your sister.

 

[Platinum]

If it doesn't take these tragic events of the last few days to spark Stop the Kindermort-type protests, then what will? How many deaths is the point when enough is finally enough?

 

[Smurfy]

I'm afraid BoJo appears to be out of his tree.

I don't live in London, but if I did I'd be well up for a protest every evening for the next month until our politicians take notice.

 

[Mile195]

Eh??? You contradict yourself sir.

TFL has a duty of care to road users of this junction as the body now responsible for it's design. The fact that so many cyclists have been killed here MAY well put them ON NOTICE and the fact that they APPEAR to have done little to make it safer, even though cyclists are STILL being killed here, COULD be viewed as negligence. I think a case brought against them by the estate(s) of the deceased(s) against them will be the only way to get them to do something to improve safety for cyclists and peds using this junction. Looking at the pic posted by Beebo why can't the railings be removed and cyclists be permitted to use the pavement? There could be a cycle phased controlled crossing to allow cyclists to cross the road whilst traffic is stationary. Alternatively a separate segregated cycle lane with a high kerb to prevent vehicles crossing into the cycle lane as they negotiate the roundabout.

I take your points. As I say, I don't really know the junction so I'm not that qualified to comment. I'd just hate to see money get taken out of future cycling budgets to cover compensation claims (no matter how deserved), but maybe that wouldn't be the case and it would come from insurers.
The best way to move forward now though seems to be to learn as much as possible from this and try to prevent any further casualties. It's still astounding how there were so many incidents in just one day. I've just seen there was another one late last night too. Quite shocking really. Makes me feel I ought to take the quiet route home tonight.

 

[albion]

I'm afraid BoJo appears to be out of his tree.

I don't live in London, but if I did I'd be well up for a protest every evening for the next month until our politicians take notice.

I thought you had heard the same interview I heard.
He was telling us the good news about deaths going down, later throwing in the word 'percentage'.

I sometimes think the problem with protests is that politicians often see them as a challenge to their ego rather than a call to move safety forwards.