Bradford Cycle Lane

[growingvegetables]

Just "Wow!". The folks that brought us the "Cycling Super Highway", not content with bad planning, and worse construction, have managed to find another unholy way to piss me off. Well and truly.

WTAF.
City Connect is working with the university to design (an) app ... to encourage cyclists to learn about road safety while riding along the segregated route between Bradford and Leeds
A message for the idiots at City Connect. I DO NOT NEED ENCOURAGEMENT TO LEARN ABOUT ROAD SAFETY; IT'S MY LIFE ON 12KG OF FLIMSY METAL! If anybody needs such encouragement, it's the City Connect designers themselves; or the moronic Stanningley residents who think sprinkling the CSH with broken glass will restore their house values (yup, they really are that stupid - the CSH "has seriously devalued our houses"!); or the numpties who think the CSH is there - for them to park on. And as for the dangerously selfish ******s who think the cycle lane is an advanced stop line for their fiddle-panzers .....

[edited - not what I typed! Aye, it's hard to maintain any level of righteous zealous anger when my word becomes "fiddle-panzers" ]

 

[NorthernDave]

Just "Wow!". The folks that brought us the "Cycling Super Highway", not content with bad planning, and worse construction, have managed to find another unholy way to piss me off. Well and truly.

WTAF.
City Connect is working with the university to design (an) app ... to encourage cyclists to learn about road safety while riding along the segregated route between Bradford and Leeds
A message for the idiots at City Connect. I DO NOT NEED ENCOURAGEMENT TO LEARN ABOUT ROAD SAFETY; IT'S MY LIFE ON 12KG OF FLIMSY METAL! If anybody needs such encouragement, it's the City Connect designers themselves; or the moronic Stanningley residents who think sprinkling the CSH with broken glass will restore their house values (yup, they really are that stupid - the CSH "has seriously devalued our houses"!); or the numpties who think the CSH is there - for them to park on. And as for the dangerously selfish ******s who think the cycle lane is an advanced stop line for their fiddle-panzers .....

[edited - not what I typed! Aye, it's hard to maintain any level of righteous zealous anger when my word becomes "fiddle-panzers" ]

It does seem incredibly patronising - and this from a pair of local authorities who are constantly crying about how skint they are...which is presumably why there is virtually zero enforcement of the clearly signposted parking regs.

But, can I suggest something that might annoy you even more?
The whole outbound section of the CSH past Asda at Killingbeck (one of the last bits to be finished last year, and which was apparently delayed due to them finding a gas main beneath where it was going) has been ripped up.
Yep, less than a year old and a whole stretch of it is gone - ironically to allow them to extend the gas main across York Road into the new development that is going up behind Seacroft Hospital.
Given the cost of the whole scheme, that must be getting on for £500,000 worth of cycleway that's now been closed and dug up?

Oh and of course on the opposite side of York Road, the bike lane is closed for them to put the access road to the development in.
You really couldn't make it up!

 

[classic33]

It does seem incredibly patronising - and this from a pair of local authorities who are constantly crying about how skint they are...which is presumably why there is virtually zero enforcement of the clearly signposted parking regs.

But, can I suggest something that might annoy you even more?
The whole outbound section of the CSH past Asda at Killingbeck (one of the last bits to be finished last year, and which was apparently delayed due to them finding a gas main beneath where it was going) has been ripped up.
Yep, less than a year old and a whole stretch of it is gone - ironically to allow them to extend the gas main across York Road into the new development that is going up behind Seacroft Hospital.
Given the cost of the whole scheme, that must be getting on for £500,000 worth of cycleway that's now been closed and dug up?

Oh and of course on the opposite side of York Road, the bike lane is closed for them to put the access road to the development in.
You really couldn't make it up!

NGN/British Gas are expecting the work at Seacroft to be completed by the end of next year, 2018.

 

[NorthernDave]

NGN/British Gas are expecting the work at Seacroft to be completed by the end of next year, 2018.

I knew it was work on the gas main, but I didn't realise that they're dragging it out for nearly two years!
Lets hope the CSH is back in place/use before then - and reinstated to a high standard, which is something that rarely follows after works like this. Given that the development there has been in the offing for years, and it was the gas main that reportedly delayed the CSH getting finished there, you have to question why they put it in to simply rip it out again months later?
Surely the sensible thing would have been to continue to have bikes sharing the existing and very wide bus lane until after the gas works were done and then do the CSH works..?

 

[growingvegetables]

But, can I suggest something that might annoy you even more?
The whole outbound section of the CSH past Asda at Killingbeck ....

Ooooh - I know about all that crap. And the bit west of the Melbourne roundabout - the "this is difficult - ah fark it - forget it - throw the cyclists out into the traffic on one of the nastiest roundabouts in Leeds".

That's pretty much what boiled my **** - that I need to "learn about road safety while riding a bike". Incompetent *******s. Worse - incompetent *******s with funding to be incompetent *******s.

 

[classic33]

As far as I'm aware it's the sale of the hospital site that's delayed things. That was going to be closed two years ago.

Gas work passed onto a sub-contractor, by the contractor. You'll see a fair few minor gas repairs this year in that area. And if the road surface doesn't match expectations(the road either side of the work), let them know. They're obliged by law to reinstate the road surface as it was before work began. Major problem is that they are using maps/plans that were drawn up in most cases in the '70's. Updating them as new pipes are laid only.

You have this as well, in that area. Inbound has started.
Inbound
16 Jan - 31 Aug 2017
A64 York Road, Burmantofts,
Somerville Green to Seacroft Hospital Entrance

Outbound
A64 York Road, Burmantofts,
Killingbeck Drive - Watson Road
1 Apr 2017 - 31 Jan 2018

 

[NorthernDave]

Time for an update.

Due to an unexpected diversion of todays ride, I've now cycles the entire outbound section of CS1 (as the CSH is now known to the East of Leeds city centre) and can offer the following critique...

As local cyclist knows, the CSH / CS1 and CS2 dump you on either side of the city centre and then leave you to make your own way across to the other section.
Today I rode down New York Street, York Street and the life in your hands experience that is the 6-lane wide Marsh Lane intersection, where to the best of my knowledge there is no cycling infrastructure at all for cyclists heading east.
The only way I could see to get onto CS1 was to kerb hop through a pelican crossing as there appears to be no access from the carriageway onto the cycleway.
This gives you quite a tight radius turn onto the CSH proper and off we go up the hill.
At the first bus stop the CSH takes a narrowed slalom around it and continues to climb
Just before the next bus stop there is an obvious but unaddressed potential for conflict with peds coming out of the housing estate, but it's the bus stop itself that is the big concern here. Simply the shared space is too narrow and you're entirely dependent on peds at the bus stop playing the game and letting you through. If they stand even a foot or two too far back you've got nowhere to go.
Thankfully it's only a very short section and then the CSH opens out a bit, onto what the signs suggest is purely a cycleway (although I've seen plenty of people walking on it). it's just as well it opens out though as there is quite a bit of overhanging foliage encroaching on your path.
Past the pet shop and to the top of the hill, before the descent down to the Torre Road junction, where it all goes horribly wrong.
Firstly priorities are confused at the roundabout with no clear direction as to who should give way to who, then just past the Ford dealer the cycleway simply ends with a no cycling sign.
What you have to do is use two pelican crossings (the first a ridiculously tight turn from the CSH) to cross to the opposite side of the road, where a shared space takes you to another pelican crossing (more very tight turns) - except none of this is clear and there are no signs to direct you.
Once over it's along past the little retail park where peds want to cross the CSH to get to the bus stop and along a nice sensible bit of segregated cycleway, before being plunged back onto the carriageway on a painted cycle lane through the Shaftesbury lights and back onto a narrow bit of CSH, then a shared space at a pelican crossing where peds will be stood waiting to cross, then more CSH squeezed between the footpath and a parking bay, putting you right into the door zone.
The CSH section around Gipton Approach is another complicated, twisting stop start wiggle through at least 4 sets of crossing lights, so I just though sod that and rejoined the road for this bit.

Back on the CSH after the junction, more tight radius curves crossing the next couple of roads and then the section up to Asda at Killingbeck which is one of the best bits. Fairly flat, actually wide enough for cyclists to pass each other (most of the CSH isn't wide enough for overtakes), but the final part of this section is under trees and there is a lot of debris in it - leaves, twigs, small branches, fruit, etc - making it a bit slippery under wheel.
Another 3 sets of crossing lights to negotiate at the entrance to Asda and then the CSH climbs past the store.
Today there was an oil spill running down the CSH, fortunately easily visible due to the rain, from a crashed vehicle on the roadway which was awaiting recovery. A half hearted attempt had been made to address this with a small amount of sand but this had been overwhelmed and with the wet weather it was spreading dangerously (I reported it as soon as I got home).
Across Oak Tree Lane (2 more crossing lights), then a narrow shared space, another bus top to negotiate and past the cemetery and more shared space by the garage before being dumped back onto the road on a painted cycle lane.

At the former Melbourne roundabout the CSH officially carries on alongside York Road, but I was headed for Cross Gates so needed to get across - but there is no apparent way to get across the 4 lanes of York Road onto Cross Gates Road, so I ended up using the pelican crossing, with tactile surfaces for the visually impaired which were very slippery in the wet under bike tyres.
This dumps you on a piece of vintage 1990's cycling infrastructure which runs for about 100 yards and then just stops. Is the path a shared space from here, or should I get off and push? There are no signs to tell you so I just carried on, but really?

At the next crossing I crossed and took the painted cycle lane on the road, avoiding the several parked cars.
However the cycle lane simply runs out well short of the roundabout and again, there are no directions or provisions for cyclists onto the notorious and busy Cross Gates roundabout so you're on your own until a painted cycle lane re-appears again three-quarters of the way round it.

So in summary, parts are good, but too much of it is terrible.
There are far too many sections that are only really wide enough for one bike, so no overtaking / passing.
More worrying though are the number of conflict points with pedestrians, which are apparently resolved by slapping a bit of green paint on the tarmac.
There is the poor maintenance (lack of clearing under trees?) and perhaps worse are the number of tortuous multiple crossings where cyclists have to stop frequently to request permission to proceed. And all those tight curves - why? You're frequently checked back to below walking speed and on a couple I felt the need to actually stop to position the bike as the turns were simply too tight.
And there are the difficult bits, where rather than come up with a solution they seem to have simply not bothered...and the inconsistency in priorities at junctions.

Having now ridden the eastern section, my honest opinion is that it was designed by someone who either doesn't cycle, or doesn't have to use it.

 

[growingvegetables]

Today I rode down New York Street, York Street and the life in your hands experience that is the 6-lane wide Marsh Lane intersection, where to the best of my knowledge there is no cycling infrastructure at all for cyclists heading east.

Try down Kirkgate, past the Duck and Drake, under the bridge, cross to the pavement in front of St Peters (I believe it's shared-use); across the middle of the roundabout, and just past Coop Funeral, take the (pedestrian ) crossing over to the other side, and it's signed cycle route thru to CS1.

A tad longer - but it avoids that VILE traffic lights at St Peter St (?) - that looooong, looooooooong space where the timing of the lights doesn't allow for cyclists to clear the junction.

At the first bus stop the CSH takes a narrowed slalom around it and continues to climb
Just before the next bus stop there is an obvious but unaddressed potential for conflict with peds coming out of the housing estate, but it's the bus stop itself that is the big concern here.

The biggest danger perhaps is that those bus stops are so rarely used? At least at the well-used stops, pedestrians are usually pretty good, and getting used to the layout (I exclude the bus stop at Romart Stores - the people there make sheep look like Einstein ).

Past the pet shop and to the top of the hill, before the descent down to the Torre Road junction, where it all goes horribly wrong ...

... when it would have been so much easier just to share the buslane over the flyover.

Once over it's along past the little retail park where peds want to cross the CSH to get to the bus stop ...

OI! That's the Romart stop! They're all mad there!

... then the section up to Asda at Killingbeck which is one of the best bits.

Yup!

Across Oak Tree Lane (2 more crossing lights), then a narrow shared space, another bus top to negotiate and past the cemetery and more shared space by the garage ...

... and stop there!

For Cross Gates, at the garage cross over to the other side of York Road. Depending on where your're going, either through by the Blood Transfusion place, Maryfields, and Pooles to Cross Gates station; or along York Road to the lights and cross to the other side of Cross Gates Rd.

I'm pretty sure the decision would have been ... remodelling the Melbourne roundabout ALONE to accommodate safe, convenient facilities for cycling would absorb the whole of the budget, and a wee bit more. Yup - it's that bad. It's been "nipped and tucked" so many times to "smooth vehicle flow" that, I'm guessing, the whole ****ing thing needs rethought, ripped up, and rebuilt from scratch.

And you missed a long stretch where the CSH actually works pretty well .

And there are the difficult bits, where rather than come up with a solution they seem to have simply not bothered...

... or are waiting to do the full Monty; do the whole junction reconstruction at once. Like just below Seacroft Hospital for the new housing development?

There's a couple of other places like that - the ring road rab between Stanningley and Bradford (which is supposed to be in the pipeline), and the Mike's Carpets rab in Armley .

... and the inconsistency in priorities at junctions.

Having now ridden the eastern section, my honest opinion is that it was designed by ....

... two different teams? One had the bit east of Melbourne RAB , and the other ... the rest .

 

[NorthernDave]

Try down Kirkgate, past the Duck and Drake, under the bridge, cross to the pavement in front of St Peters (I believe it's shared-use); across the middle of the roundabout, and just past Coop Funeral, take the (pedestrian ) crossing over to the other side, and it's signed cycle route thru to CS1.

A tad longer - but it avoids that VILE traffic lights at St Peter St (?) - that looooong, looooooooong space where the timing of the lights doesn't allow for cyclists to clear the junction.


The biggest danger perhaps is that those bus stops are so rarely used? At least at the well-used stops, pedestrians are usually pretty good, and getting used to the layout (I exclude the bus stop at Romart Stores - the people there make sheep look like Einstein ).


... when it would have been so much easier just to share the buslane over the flyover.


OI! That's the Romart stop! They're all mad there!


Yup!


... and stop there!

For Cross Gates, at the garage cross over to the other side of York Road. Depending on where your're going, either through by the Blood Transfusion place, Maryfields, and Pooles to Cross Gates station; or along York Road to the lights and cross to the other side of Cross Gates Rd.

I'm pretty sure the decision would have been ... remodelling the Melbourne roundabout ALONE to accommodate safe, convenient facilities for cycling would absorb the whole of the budget, and a wee bit more. Yup - it's that bad. It's been "nipped and tucked" so many times to "smooth vehicle flow" that, I'm guessing, the whole ****ing thing needs rethought, ripped up, and rebuilt from scratch.

And you missed a long stretch where the CSH actually works pretty well .


... or are waiting to do the full Monty; do the whole junction reconstruction at once. Like just below Seacroft Hospital for the new housing development?

There's a couple of other places like that - the ring road rab between Stanningley and Bradford (which is supposed to be in the pipeline), and the Mike's Carpets rab in Armley .





... two different teams? One had the bit east of Melbourne RAB , and the other ... the rest .

I missed out the section from the Melbourne RAB up to Seacroft as I've ridden that bit loads and for most of it it work really well - the junction just after the fire station is a bit convuluted and the one near Aldi needs you to have your wits about you, but it's generally good.

The real confusion on that part is where it ends. The segregated cycleway stops at the Ring Road and to the uninitiated it seems like it ends there, but there are cycle signs on the local roads running parallel (Stocks Rd, Hansby Drive), a new bit of shared path up to the Windmill RAB, more cycle signs through the underpasses and a painted cycle lane (outbound) or shared paths (inbound) on the next section of the A64.

 

[growingvegetables]

The real confusion on that part is where it ends. The segregated cycleway stops at the Ring Road and to the uninitiated it seems like it ends there, but there are cycle signs on the local roads running parallel (Stocks Rd, Hansby Drive), a new bit of shared path up to the Windmill RAB, more cycle signs through the underpasses and a painted cycle lane (outbound) or shared paths (inbound) on the next section of the A64.

Oh sh!t - I know. That bit leaves me ROFLMAO.

Like all cyclists REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to do, is get onto the single carriageway section of the A64 from Seacroft thru to the A1(M)! "Hey - that's where cars want to go! Are cyclists different?" Duuuuuuh!


It's really not a hard set of three questions to ask of a bunch of people on bikes - where are you going, why, and how will you get there? NOBODY in their right minds cycles that section of the A64! EVER! There are far pleasanter (and above all, safer!) routes between Leeds and York.

 

[classic33]

Seacroft Hospital will be part of the housing development, not next to it.

There's road closures all around it, by all the utility companies, to allow supply to meet demand.

 

[classic33]

Marsh Lane isn't finished yet. Completion date is the 20th April 2018
Works Reference Number:GP072111222333

 

[classic33]

If you stay with taxi drivers, which is what I pointed out.

Edited to add:
Again, a year later the post is questioned. Odd.

From Moderators:
There may well be mainly asian taxi drivers in the places mentioned. However the relevant point is that they are taxi drivers, their race is immaterial.
These two posts have been left in, the remainder of the argument about racism has been deleted.
Any further racist comments on this thread will result in thread bans.

This applies to everyone, not just Classic.

If you think a post is racist, report it, do not start another argument on a cycle-lane thread.

 

[NorthernDave]

On the way to work on Wednesday morning, the CSH was white over with snow on both sides of York Road - however, on coming home I was pleasantly surprised to see it had been gritted / cleared all the way from Leeds city centre up to the Melbourne roundabout, unlike the adjacent footpath, and it's been maintained since.
Admittedly it is a narrow section in the centre of the CSH and it is only wide enough for one bike with no overtaking unless you wanted to risk the snow and ice, but cleared it was. Oh, and obviously avoid the peds who were walking on the cleared cycle route rather than the uncleared footpath...

Now al the council need to do is sort out the many obstructions (including a portaloo right in the middle of the CSH opposite Seacroft hospital that's been there for a couple of weeks now, the works / signs blocking it by the Shaftesbury junction, the streaming water running down out of the hand car wash opposite the White Horse that turns to ice as it crosses the CSH, etc)

 

[classic33]

Seems as though the work at Seacroft Hospital is to rectify work already done.