dog bite

[Deleted User]

an update for you re this event.........I today.... Saturday ,, spoke to the police a second time....they again said things which I wrote down this time ,,, for EG......it was only being boisterous ........its only a pup , and its teeth arent fully formed............ your injury is deemed by the police dog team as minor, its just a little nip.................. you have aggravated the situation by moving the bike around..........perhaps in future you need to assess the situation more fully .......... are the cycling organisations experts in dog behaviour, perhaps YOU need to speak with some dog experts...our dog team are very well versed in dog behaviour ............... unbelievable !!!!!!

I will pursue this via civil action.....if only to satisfy myself that I am in the right ...and i have gained some sort of justice.......... for me it highlights how "difficult" dealing with the police is !!!!

What exactly is it you're after here?

Dog destroyed, owners prosecuted, a bit of compo or maybe all of the above?

Just wondering like.

 

[Drago]

As a victim you have a formal right to review, which should be done by an officer senior to the decision maker in this case, and ideally not in the same chain of supervision although that part isnt mandatory.

The fact its a puppy is irrelevant.

The fact its teeth are not full formed is irrelevant.

The fact that the non-clinically trained police dog handler assesses your physical injury as minor, which ignoring a y psychological distress, is irrelevant.

The fact that it is a minor phsyical injury is mere luck, happenstance, and nothing more, and should not be considered to the ofrenders credit.

A crime has been committed.

The offence is complete.

Throw in the idiot officers - and I use the term reluctantly about a brother but in this case I think they earned it - victim blaming comments and it really does seem to be they are trying to make this go away with as little effort as possible rather than investigating the matter to the point of an appropriate resolution.

As you have been injured it is really unsuitable for disposal by way of a community resolution without your approval. The owner needs to be formally interviewed under in a police station, the matter taken seriously and the facts properly established prior to making a decision on disposal. they are clearly not doing this.

I would call 101, and demand the case is subject to the right to review process, and if there is any resistance to this raise a complaint and demand it be forwarded to Professional Standards to investigate.

From that which you tell us, were it one of my officers dealing with this BITD I would be expecting this to be resolved by way of a formal police caution, assuming they admit the offence in interview and show some contrition and that they dont already have a history of this sort of thing. That serves both as a warning short across their bows that this is a serious matter and gives them a chance to raise their game without any serious sanction at this point, but also makes any further such offending pretty much an automatic charge and court visit. It puts the ball firmly back in their court for the future.

 

[Peter Salt]

That dog would get a proper kick from me, and another one if it came back for more. I don't care how young it was or what breed. If the coppers complained about MY behaviour, you bet your ass I would complain and take it all the way.

 

[Jameshow]

Yeah, tradesmen can fall foul sometimes. Stanley knives are fine going to and from work, but being a carpet layer won't save you if you're stopped at 11pm on a Saturday night with one in your vehicle.

Fortunately my fists are registered as deadly weapons, so I'm covered at all times

That's crazy I often have tools in my campervan esp if going to see my parents, who knows what jobs they want me to do!

I think that a toolbox / bag shows your not intent on using them as weapons.

 

[Drago]

Youre covered. "I'm on my way to my parents, they have a sheet load of various DIY jobs they want me to do" - that is the proferbial 'reasonable excuse' . Keep the sharp or pointy stuff in the boot/cupboard and not in the drivers door pocket and you're golden.

 

[a.twiddler]

RSPCA advice on dealing with an unfamiliar dog:-

Stop moving towards the dog
Stay calm
Talk to the dog calmly in a pleasant tone of voice
Get something as solid as possible between you and the dog (a bike?)
Watch the dog – but do not stare into his/her face
You may need to move, either behind something or to get away from the dog
Do not make sudden movements or run, just walk slowly away from the dog

But they also add that it should not be a member of the public's responsibility to deal with a dog outside the owner's property or off the lead. It is the owner's responsibility. You can report an aggressive dog (or the owner) to the RSPCA. Ptobably a bit late in the OP's case as it already has been removed for training, but something to bear in mind for future situations.

 

[Pale Rider]

that is the proferbial 'reasonable excuse' .

I've heard several young men caught with a Stanley knife in their pocket on a night out say something like: "I'd been helping my brother lay a carpet earlier on the day and forgot the knife was in my trousers."

The OP should be entitled to a few hundred in compo for his injuries from the dog owner, but I would caution against trying to mount a civil claim.

Not because he doesn't have right on his side, he does, but because unless the other party folds immediately and makes an offer, such an action can soon get out of hand in terms of time taken and cost.

Practically, the ordinary citizen has very limited access to civil justice.

This is unfortunate, but the reality of the situation needs to be recognised.

 

[davy]

What exactly is it you're after here?

Dog destroyed, owners prosecuted, a bit of compo or maybe all of the above?

Just wondering like.

Hi,,,,,,,, what am I after ???? well.......I would say first of all....I am happy with the dog being removed from the owners , as by their admission they couldnt deal with its behaviour....it has been sent back to the rescue centre for further training...and presumably given to more suitable owners in the future.....that I agree with .....so long as the dog is removed from the streets ...away from kids etc. until its trained properly...... thats OK....I didnt want it destroyed ...and I left that decision to the experts.................

.............. as for my injuries...I first of all wanted acceptance that I was injured ....and that the damage done was physically serious ( I could be left with a scar(s) ) AND that the stress it caused both me and my wife is acknowledged .....I have had one counselling session with others to follow. I went to the park again today ( on foot) to see if I could deal with that ....I was ok BTW....I have yet to ride again....hopefully trying that tomorrow.......I am determined that it wont stop my activities ,,, including taking my grandchildren to parks etc...................... If I get compo awarded , whilst that would be welcome , if its awarded to me I would see that as a recognition that I was wronged and my account is believed and valid.................... yes I know that there are folk far worse off than me after incidents of all kinds.......but that is just how I feel.

 

[Deleted User]

Counselling, distress for you and your wife?

A pug bit you!

 

[davy]

Obviously not on the side of the victim. You would almost think they were trying to wrap this case up asap to meet one of their targets (but they wouldn't do that, would they???). Or they're supporting their officer who dealt with your case even if they might have their own doubts about his actions, as they've already started down that road.

Maybe you need to get your ducks in a row ready to ask to speak to someone more senior. Perhaps you could get a medical opinion on your alleged "little nip". The dog team might be experts on dogs, but are they medical experts? Call their bluff and talk to some dog experts yourself. A local vet maybe, or perhaps they can give you some leads (pardon the pun). And some actual legal advice wouldn't go amiss, since the police are so dismissive of cycling organisations' (or apparently anybody's) opinions on dogs. I'm pretty sure all this has been going around in your head and maybe dragging you down since it happened -what might you have done differently, what would you do if something like it happened again- like anyone would.

As for the dog owner, since you have the witnesses and have had first aid and a medical intervention, get some actual legal advice as above about pursuing a legal case against him. "Nice people" or not, you're the victim here. If you do start a legal case, it might drag on with counter accusations and unpleasantness if the dog owner contests it so it's not a quick fix. The justice system is not always an uplifting experience.

I have a feeling that this might be one of those situations where nobody comes out ahead in the end but if you were to get a quick decision in your favour from a court it might lighten your mind a bit.

so good points in there "Twidler "...antib is clearing the possible infection , time hopefully will clear the bruising ,,,,,hopefully the scars ( if any) will reduce....at my age these things take a bit longer ...................however I am having to work on the mental /confidence issue ...so yes some sort of resolution would help that....I am having counselling sessions too

 

[davy]

As a victim you have a formal right to review, which should be done by an officer senior to the decision maker in this case, and ideally not in the same chain of supervision although that part isnt mandatory.

The fact its a puppy is irrelevant.

The fact its teeth are not full formed is irrelevant.

The fact that the non-clinically trained police dog handler assesses your physical injury as minor, which ignoring a y psychological distress, is irrelevant.

The fact that it is a minor phsyical injury is mere luck, happenstance, and nothing more, and should not be considered to the ofrenders credit.

A crime has been committed.

The offence is complete.

Throw in the idiot officers - and I use the term reluctantly about a brother but in this case I think they earned it - victim blaming comments and it really does seem to be they are trying to make this go away with as little effort as possible rather than investigating the matter to the point of an appropriate resolution.

As you have been injured it is really unsuitable for disposal by way of a community resolution without your approval. The owner needs to be formally interviewed under in a police station, the matter taken seriously and the facts properly established prior to making a decision on disposal. they are clearly not doing this.

I would call 101, and demand the case is subject to the right to review process, and if there is any resistance to this raise a complaint and demand it be forwarded to Professional Standards to investigate.

From that which you tell us, were it one of my officers dealing with this BITD I would be expecting this to be resolved by way of a formal police caution, assuming they admit the offence in interview and show some contrition and that they dont already have a history of this sort of thing. That serves both as a warning short across their bows that this is a serious matter and gives them a chance to raise their game without any serious sanction at this point, but also makes any further such offending pretty much an automatic charge and court visit. It puts the ball firmly back in their court for the future.

thank you

 

[davy]

thank you all for your useful comments and SUPPORT........as I said I am 76 years , and feeling a bit vunnerable and yes my confidence has taken a set back too........BUT.....I am of the mind that this isnt going to stop my activities , but it does need working on...which I shall do. I have put in a request for the final police call to ring once more so now that my thoughts are collected properly I can again get the "facts" as they see them and argue my case should i disagree.. ....as mentioned above , I would like to think that unfortunate others , get a more realistic response in future .

I was also sent contact details for Victim Support , which I have followed up and will make use of their advice and guidance

My spray from VonWolf has arrived today ...so ready for an outing at the weekend....probably avoiding parks etc , for the time being ...whilst I get back into it a little more

thanks once again
Great community here
Bestest Davy

update to above....after listening to advice on here the spray was returned ( unused ) yesterday...I feel happier after doing so

 

[davy]

Keep an eye on any wound though as dog's mouths are full of bacteria. A colleague was rather worried about me when a dog drew blood, but it was the dog's claws that got me.

apparently tetanus injections are not routinely given by NHS these days...I was told that the infection does not reside in the dog , but in the soil , so unless the wound is in contact with soil ,,,even a rusted nail in the ground then Anti B will suffice ...two medics at the walk in told me that on Sunday last

 

[Drago]

Lets hope the medics dont take their training from the police dog handler...

 

[Threevok]

I would agree totally......a sheep dog is not on a leaad , but my goodness they are trained and under control...to my mind

Don't be fooled by that. Two of my worse experiences have been with Border Collies.