dumbass LCC bike lane on Stratford High Street

[dellzeqq]

what would you all like in Stratford then? I'm sure some of you have access to pencil and paper and can sketch it out. Trouble is I often read a lot of moaning in this section of the forum with little in the way of solutions being proposed.

well I think that if you read the thread you'll get a decent idea.

I'd be looking for a sense of place. The gyratory turns the centre of Stratford in to a traffic scheme rather than a place where people meet, linger, or recognise themselves. Turning back the clock to a two way high street would be good. Building the old street pattern over the northern leg of the gyratory would be really good, and, given the value generated by land sales, would actually make a profit. That's not going to happen, of course, because the DfT and the Council are in thrall to Westfield.

As for the High Street west of the town centre - well, both Stowie and I have set out our stalls. One thing that would't trouble me is congestion - Tooting and Clapham are so congested that nobody with any sense thinks that they are on the way to somewhere.

 

[downfader]

well I think that if you read the thread you'll get a decent idea

No. Still cant see a solution being proposed.

 

[funnymummy]

They work fine in Brighton

 

[dellzeqq]

yes. Indeed. Is there, perhaps, something (or somebody) missing?

 

[mcshroom]

What that lane does is move from having a small number of predictable interactions with vehicles to a large number of far less predictable interactions with pedestrians, especially as the pedestrians are getting off the bus away from the road and therefore not expecting to interact with traffic. On another forum we've been discussing the design and one of the contributors was part of the TRL trial of this design of farcility. He had concerns that even with the pedestrians being on their best behaviour and knowing that this was the facility being tested, it was still more dangerous for him than the option he chose in the end of pulling out into lane 2 It also had a dangerous reentry for the undertaking cyclists back onto the main carriageway. It would have made far more sense to have put the bus stop in the area that cycle lane has been put and left the cycles in the large bus lane that would then be vacated.

LCC is IMHO becoming part of the problem, in that it is obsessed with segregation, where the highest levels of cycling in London are in Hackney - the borough which has mostly rejected segregation and instead gone for the cheaper and more effective approach of making areas permeable to cyclists whilst not to motor traffic. Why not concentrate on what is actually working, rather than large blue-painted prestige projects that get lots of headlines, and spend the massive amount of investment you are getting in London compared to the rest of the UK, but are not getting the same increases in cycling rates?

 

[mcshroom]

Remember to add the obligatory mobile phones to those pedestrians as well.

 

[mcshroom]

And i-pods?

Come on, we're not that modern out here

 

[funnymummy]

Do you have any photos of a couple of dozen passengers getting off a bus, with or without pushchairs and small children, while a few cyclists are going past?

Sadly, no..But I've ridden along there when there's hoards of Uni students - Many foreign, getting on & off the buses & never had any issues, neither has anyone I know.
I'd much rather this system, maybe I have to slow down for a few seconds 'just in case' but it's a hell a lot better than how is it was, having buses pull into the cycle lane, having to stop behind buses, or try puling out into busy traffic, then have the bus pull out as you're halfway past it.

 

[dellzeqq]

What that lane does is move from having a small number of predictable interactions with vehicles to a large number of far less predictable interactions with pedestrians, especially as the pedestrians are getting off the bus away from the road and therefore not expecting to interact with traffic. On another forum we've been discussing the design and one of the contributors was part of the TRL trial of this design of farcility. He had concerns that even with the pedestrians being on their best behaviour and knowing that this was the facility being tested, it was still more dangerous for him than the option he chose in the end of pulling out into lane 2 It also had a dangerous reentry for the undertaking cyclists back onto the main carriageway. It would have made far more sense to have put the bus stop in the area that cycle lane has been put and left the cycles in the large bus lane that would then be vacated.

LCC is IMHO becoming part of the problem, in that it is obsessed with segregation, where the highest levels of cycling in London are in Hackney - the borough which has mostly rejected segregation and instead gone for the cheaper and more effective approach of making areas permeable to cyclists whilst not to motor traffic. Why not concentrate on what is actually working, rather than large blue-painted prestige projects that get lots of headlines, and spend the massive amount of investment you are getting in London compared to the rest of the UK, but are not getting the same increases in cycling rates?

I'm glad you mentioned Hackney, because, while it is in some ways a special case, it does offer a model which is quite different to the (extremely successful) radial routes south of the river. As you say, Hackney is permeable by bike, but pretty darn impermeable by car. If you were to commute from the Town Hall to Finsbury Circus you'd find that cycling is quicker and cheaper. I'm not talking 'super-fit' here, but, rather, trustafarians on dutch bikes, elderly gents on Bromptons and young women with baskets on the handlebars. Broadway Market is bikes nose to tail. Hackney Council has, then, done the absolute opposite to the giant brains responsible for the demise of Stratford High Street - they've created congestion, complication and delay for motor traffic and opened up little road-based routes for cyclists.

The fly in the ointment is the Regents Canal towpath where, sad to say, bicycles are a menace to pedestrians.

 

[dellzeqq]

[QUOTE 2736963, member: 30090"][/quote]
£914,000,000.

And don't forget the £200,000,000 blown on LCN+. Anybody seen that recently?

 

[subaqua]

I used to cycle through here 4 times a day, but now due to the roadworks I have reduced that to 2 times a day.
I would wonder who thought it was a good idea to have three lanes on this road in the first place... a much worse decision than these bus stops.
It is such a pity that the rest of the CS2 is such a stinker, I do think this is somewhat an improvement, albeit with some concessions.

It is good to see that a lane has been taken away from motor vehicles in creating this cycle way, while I do not wholly agree with segregation, if this can help to slow the traffic just a little I am in favour, and there will be those who are less confident about going around a bus into an outside lane with fast moving traffic, so they can keep their momentum going. The only issue I foresee is ignorance from either pedestrians or cyclists as to who should give way.

At the times of day that I go through Stratford I cannot imagine this causing me too much of an issue, and with the footfall I see along this route I don't see that it will be too much of a problem for most.

I don't mind them, but I want to see these in action before I say nay or yay, and if it is wrong hopefully they will learn from it.

There are videos on YouTube showing this is how the Dutch do it, and there are quite a few people who like the idea of Dutch style infrastructure, so why not these?

I stopped using it and started going up Viccy park Rd as that is less scary !!

I had to come home along it from bow to stratford the other day and it is truly awful. still not as bad as the other part of cyclescaryhighway 2 from bow to aldgate

 

[subaqua]

I'm glad you mentioned Hackney, because, while it is in some ways a special case, it does offer a model which is quite different to the (extremely successful) radial routes south of the river. As you say, Hackney is permeable by bike, but pretty darn impermeable by car. If you were to commute from the Town Hall to Finsbury Circus you'd find that cycling is quicker and cheaper. I'm not talking 'super-fit' here, but, rather, trustafarians on dutch bikes, elderly gents on Bromptons and young women with baskets on the handlebars. Broadway Market is bikes nose to tail. Hackney Council has, then, done the absolute opposite to the giant brains responsible for the demise of Stratford High Street - they've created congestion, complication and delay for motor traffic and opened up little road-based routes for cyclists.

The fly in the ointment is the Regents Canal towpath where, sad to say, bicycles are a menace to pedestrians.

yup Hackney is a delight to ride through now

my route to the city is Vic park road Mare street and then along andrews road parallel to canal then through some little estates to pitfield street after the A10 . takes about 5 mins longer but is 2 miles longer than my old route.

i rode regents canal towpath once - the cyclopaths using it need pushing into the water.

 

[ozzage]

The main issues I have are the kerbs and the fact that it's in east London and I'm in west London! Do the same on Uxbridge Road and I'll be over the moon! I cycle every day in the apparently "beloved" bus lanes and would give that up in a second for something like this CS2 extension.

Bravo London for doing something semi-decent for a change. And sorry, this is much more HUMAN than all the bus lanes and extra traffic lanes in the world. If you want to save the traders along the way, as well as improve peoples' lives, then get as many people as possible onto bikes. They aren't stopping at shops from a taxi or bus!

 

[Frood42]

I stopped using it and started going up Viccy park Rd as that is less scary !!

I had to come home along it from bow to stratford the other day and it is truly awful. still not as bad as the other part of cyclescaryhighway 2 from bow to aldgate

I used to do this:
http://app.strava.com/activities/90702051

But now I do this:
http://app.strava.com/activities/91089297

(sometimes I only do 20 miles http://app.strava.com/activities/91088958 rather than 30 miles)

The CS3 along the A13 is much more open, and is a bit stop and start due to side roads and lights, however at least I don't have to put up with motons who shouldn't hold a license (and of course the current road works which makes it a very undesirable place to cycle through).

Thing is, even when it is finished, I am not sure that it will attract the numbers they want, as it all looks a bit disjointed when you finally get to Stratford, and if you are not on a Barclays hire bike where do you park? The shopping centre has really missed a number there, the cycle parking is not convenient or even easy to find. They have an outside shopping area, where you could have easily had bike parking, rather than a rack or two hidden in car parks which are not easy to get to...

 

[StuartG]

This sounds very grand but it doesn't at all match the reality of Greater London, where we use a mix of walking, buses, tubes, trains, cycling and driving to get around. What's clear from the evidence is that those cities that encourage mass cycling (not just a few super-fit ultra-assertive road warriors) ...

Is that supposed to include me and you are looking for laughs?

But it is not a laughing matter. You show no perspective of seeing the issue from the pedestrian's viewpoint. Aren't they supposed to be at the top of the pyramid? They are messy, many are old, poor sighted or mothers trying to control kids, disabled or even people running for a bus - across the toe tripping infrastructure. Which brings me to my personal experience. The only injury I have suffered in over 40 years pounding London's streets is just one such cycle cut through, At night with dodgy lighting and pavement obstructions I went flying smashing and cutting open my head. (Its was Southwark jobby on Fountain Drive).

You have the arrogance to suggest we go to the Netherland. Been there (and Denmark). I was clearly unlucky to see something so stupid. I will take your word they do exist - when you do such a lot for cyclists you are going to make some mistakes. The situation in London is quite different. The one good thing we have is bus lanes. Not built for us but a darn sight more useful then nearly everything that was. Instead of capitalising on it - you carefully avoid it. You ignore the bicycle training suggestion that this type of thing should be avoided.

I was a founder member of LCC back in the early seventies. It was a great idea to improve practical bicycling in the city. But it lost its way. It is not interested in serving my needs (and it never asks). Yet it too has the arrogance to speak in my name. Its wasted millions of our money in schemes most of us avoid. Its become a brand with its own rather than cyclist's agendas.

You are part of the problem, not the solution.