From the Leicerster Mercury

[Hilldodger]

Leicestershire villager hurt in collision with time-trial cyclist
Wednesday, September 02, 2009, 09:30


Calls for time-trial cyclists to be kept out of a Leicestershire village have been renewed after a crash involving a competitor and an elderly resident.

Philip Clowes, 82, was knocked unconscious in a collision with the time-trialist in Long Whatton, near Loughborough, which is on a registered 12.5-mile street circuit.

The route through the village centre is used by race-against-the-clock riders from clubs across the country.

Mr Clowes said he was cycling to the village post office when he was involved in the accident with a rider from the Coalville Wheelers cycling club at around 9.30am on Monday.

Both men were knocked from their bikes and needed hospital treatment.
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Mr Clowes, a farmer, said: "Every morning I ride to the post office to pick up a paper.

"I was just turning right off Main Street when this chap hit me from behind.

"I have a mirror on my bicycle and I didn't see him. I really don't remember much else except coming round a short while later lying on the road.

"I was wearing a high-visibility coat so I could be seen, and a helmet. A big bit has been chipped out of it where I banged my head. It probably saved me.

"I went to the Queen's Medical Centre. I've got quite bad bruising on my hip, as well, but I'm otherwise okay.

"Sometimes these time trial fellows come so quickly through the village it can be frightening."

Long Whatton Parish Council says the crash is the latest in a series of incidents involving collisions and conflicts between residents and the cyclists.

Parish council chairman Tom Wilkins said: "They are a menace. They show a lack of consideration for villagers and this is the second time someone has been clattered."

Alice Clarke, a 10-year-old Brownie, was injured three years ago while crossing Main Street, and villagers have been trying to stop the trials since. Mr Wilkins said: "We don't want them coming through any more. Eventually one of us or one of them will be killed.

"We've had two lucky escapes involving an elderly man and a little girl."

John Doran, general secretary of the Coalville Wheelers, said the club rider needed 10 stitches, but was not badly hurt.

He said: "The people of Long Whatton seem to have a problem with groups of cyclists passing through at 15 to 20 mph on half a dozen occasions each summer.

"The vast majority of time trials pass without incident. If something happens it's just as likely to be one of us that suffers from inconsiderate driving and abuse. It's a public right of way."

Mr Doran said Monday's trial was the last of the season.

North West Leicestershire police commander Inspector Chris Brown said his officers had found no evidence of any offences. He said: "We are aware of the issues raised by the parish council about the time-trial cyclists. I just ask that all road users act with consideration."

No way are they doing just 15 - 20 mph

 

[alecstilleyedye]

the bloke from the club does his cause no favours by lying about the speed. unless the village is on a hill, the speed can easily be 25-30mph or even more if it's a quality field.

 

[Will1985]

We've been discussing this on timetriallingforum - apparently the accident site is uphill and so speeds are lower there, but still above 20.

A mirror is no substitute for looking...that's what we're taught when learning to drive, so the same should apply to people on bikes. If he can't turn his head, then is he safe to cycle on a road?

It's a no-win situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the tester is summoned - CTT will take action against most riders who have an accident while on the tribars...they're dangerous apparently!

Whilst I agree we shouldn't be racing through villages, there is also an argument that a cyclist will do less damage than a car going at the same speed. I can go through some 30 restrictions above 50km/h in a TT and still be overtaken...testers coming through 6 times a year are not a problem compared to cars everyday.

 

[Chuffy]

A mirror is no substitute for looking...that's what we're taught when learning to drive, so the same should apply to people on bikes. If he can't turn his head, then is he safe to cycle on a road?

A mirror is a good solution if you have neck trouble, as plenty of older cyclists do. Would you have recumbent riders banned, seeing as they also rely on mirrors?

Whilst I agree we shouldn't be racing through villages, there is also an argument that a cyclist will do less damage than a car going at the same speed. I can go through some 30 restrictions above 50km/h in a TT and still be overtaken...testers coming through 6 times a year are not a problem compared to cars everyday.

That's a pretty poor argument. The chippy response from the club chap doesn't do anyone any favours either. Would it be so hard for the club to stop going through this village?

 

[Chuffy]

testers coming through 6 times a year are not a problem compared to cars everyday.

That's 18 occasions and someone has been hurt on two of them. Those aren't acceptable odds.

 

[Will1985]

I know about the neck argument...one of my local club's marshalls can't turn his head to the right.

If it were a car instead of a bike, the paper would have an article on the danger posed by speeding cars going through the villages and killing an elder of the community. You can't win with these things. I suspect that the reason for the accidents is that people either have no respect for cyclists (car drivers) or don't appreciate the speeds that testers are going (cars and pedestrians). There is no excuse for a tester having their head down on open roads, and in this case being uphill that is unlikely.

There is another debate ongoing at the moment involving a course in Wales where the villagers are trying to get it banned because they say the bikes are a danger to children playing out in the street (30 zone with a traffic count of 150/hour)... It all boils down to the fact that villagers don't want lycra clad roadies bombing through their community.

 

[Chuffy]

If it were a car instead of a bike, the paper would have an article on the danger posed by speeding cars going through the villages and killing an elder of the community. You can't win with these things. I suspect that the reason for the accidents is that people either have no respect for cyclists (car drivers) or don't appreciate the speeds that testers are going (cars and pedestrians). There is no excuse for a tester having their head down on open roads, and in this case being uphill that is unlikely.

Well neither accident involved a car and the old chap was clattered from behind, so your points about respect or people not appreciating the speed that testers go at are irrelevant in this case.

I don't think it would hurt for the club to re-route away from this village. It's one of those rare cases where the term 'lycra lout' actually has some validity and frankly I would prefer it if some uptight club official didn't hand the anti brigade another stick to beat us all with.

 

[Will1985]

Maybe not...we don't know how suddenly the old man turned across. A natural instinct when testing is to move to the middle when passing a slower rider - the tester may have seen the old chap up ahead and moved out to the white line to make the pass.

You don't just re-route a TT course...CTT likes to ban things if the pressure is great. Moving events away from places like this is harming the sport - turning it back into the closed off secretive sport that it began as. If we are to win friends and get new cyclists, clubs and villages should be working together to make it an event, not a dispute.

If you want testers to stick to fast roads and dual carriageways, that is your opinion but it is also where your fellow cyclists are more likely to be killed. Hell it might even be me.

 

[Dave5N]

er, marshalls?

 

[Chuffy]

If you want testers to stick to fast roads and dual carriageways, that is your opinion but it is also where your fellow cyclists are more likely to be killed. Hell it might even be me.

Naughty Will, that's not what I said, now is it? I was talking about this route and this village.

Yes, it would be be better if the club worked with the villages it goes through, not to mention marshalling sensitive points like this one. My point is that it's down to the club to ensure that the villagers don't feel intimidated or threatened, which they clearly do at the moment.


You also made a point about drivers and peds not appreciating how fast testers are going. Maybe so, but the onus is on the tester to make sure that they don't hit peds, not the other way round.

 

[rich p]

It's worse in Buenos Aires, Will - this is a video of Walter Perez, the Olympic madison champion, being arrested for cycling on a restricted road

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W2RpjzRxWc&feature=player_embedded


Full story here

 

[wafflycat]

Hmmm... perhaps all is not as it seems here?

Firstly, if it was a straightforward shunt up the rear by the tester, then IMO, the tester should be severely disciplined by the local TT district, as per the TT rules, at the very least. This could include a ban from participating in time trials.

Secondly, if I'm reading this correct, the elderly cyclist *may* (note, *may* as we don't know the full facts) have been in the process of making a right-hand turn into the road where the tester was - in which case, it actually may not be the fault of the tester at all, if the tester was on the road which had priority over the road being turned out of by the elderly man. It reads as if the elderly guy pulled out into the path of a.n.other cyclist who happened to have priority and by misjudging the speed of the a.n.other cyclist, pulled out in front of him & got hit up the rear.

Put it this way, if it was a cyclist on the road that had priority and a car pulled out in front of him from a junction (due to car driver doing a RH turn on to the road) and the cyclist hit the car/car hit the cyclist, we wouldn't be calling for the cyclist to get off the road, we'd be calling for the motorist to have his collar felt. And rightly so.

So basically, I think there's a lot more detail required to know what went on.

 

[Will1985]

I know I was making big jumps, but this is the worry we have - if there is opposition to courses like this, we will end up being confined to the faster courses where there is more danger to us simply because nobody lives there to complain.

Of course cyclists should have a responsibility not to hit peds (you can't blame the CCers who have stories of peds stepping out in Commuting). We're stuck in the middle - many cars don't show the same responsibility when it comes to pulling out on cyclists from side roads....if you've ever had this in a TT when riding at 30mph on the tribars it is SCARY.

 

[Chuffy]

I know I was making big jumps, but this is the worry we have - if there is opposition to courses like this, we will end up being confined to the faster courses where there is more danger to us simply because nobody lives there to complain.

Of course cyclists should have a responsibility not to hit peds (you can't blame the CCers who have stories of peds stepping out in Commuting). We're stuck in the middle - many cars don't show the same responsibility when it comes to pulling out on cyclists from side roads....if you've ever had this in a TT when riding at 30mph on the tribars it is SCARY.

There was a whiff of <Python> "help, help I'm being persecuted! </Python> about your posts Will...

I sympathise, to a point. But if you swapped "testers" for "drivers" in the account of both incidents then we'd be supporting the villagers, wouldn't we? I doubt that we would be fussing about 'needing more information' and trying to find ways for the club to avoid taking any responsibility. Or, to put it more bluntly, if it was one of 'them' who had hit a child and an elderly cyclist then we would be having a very different discussion.

Two accidents (and I would guess, a number of near misses too?) in 18 events suggests that the villagers' concerns are real and should be addressed properly. Issuing a snotty sounding statement about being entitled to use the highway doesn't help, it just comes across as 'screw you guys, we're carrying on regardless' and that isn't going to help anyone.

 

[Will1985]

You have mentioned this 2 accidents in 18 events twice now....what about the hundreds of thousands of cars which have passed through in the same period?
We don't have figures for how many accidents they have caused, but I'm willing to bet that it is nowhere near the same proportion. Why? Because people know cars are dangerous but don't think the same of pointy hat testers.

I would say I am worried about the state of (club) testing - we can be blamed for accidents going through a village at 46km/h entirely legally, which have been caused by other road users not taking our speed and vulnerability into consideration.

Latest info on TTF from following riders suggested that the old boy pulled out on the tester. This makes all discussion irrelevant if true, although if the man had been driving we would be sending get well messages to the tester.