mickle
innit
- Location
- 53.933606, -1.076131
Tripe.
Getting a new 20 limit enforced
- Thread starter nameinuse
- Start date
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The 'worst offenders' do comprise over 80% of car drivers. That is based on the self confessions of motorists admitting they regularly exceed the speed limits. Passive restraints do, if we are to believe the statistics, have a significant effect on the majority of these. Hence a consequential big reduction in KSIs. Just because a smaller number use these as ski jumps is irrelevant. If, say 20%, do not reduce speed it has still reduced the speeding problem and casulties by a huge amount.
It is a brave assumption that people are only killed or injured by ski jumpers. To use it against the spread of 20mph zones and passive restraints is dangerous unless you have some compelling empirical evidence to the contrary.
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
'Self-enforcing' 20mph zones, with chicanes, tables, humps etc., are effective at reducing overall casualty rates. It's been widely statistically proven. However, as a cyclist I'm certainly aware of zones whose implementation is seriously flawed. Apparently a well designed zone should be self-policing with minimum enforcement. There are several near me where the infrastructure does little to control speeds, the vast majority of drivers continue to travel in excess of the previous 30mph limit, the calming measures offer little impedance to vehicles travelling in a straight line at 40mph+. In several areas the traffic calming elements can be easily by-passed, not sensibly or legally maybe, but that isn't an obstacle to many intent on 'making progress'. The trouble I have as a cyclist is that these 'calming' measures while failing to control car speeds present a hazard to two wheeled vehicles. These are easy enough to deal with, with good anticipation and road positioning, isolated from the actions of any other traffic but introduce a driver committed to maintaining their speed through the 'calming' and it's another matter. I now have several points on my regular route where I can expect motor vehicles to mount the pavement, pass to the right of bollards and mini round-a-bouts or run through cycle by-passes - all at speed. The standard issues of racing to pinch-points and close passes seem to be exacerbated by drivers' need to get through the zone as quickly as possible. On-coming traffic can be expected to swerve to the wrong side of the road at every bump.
Apparently enforcement of 20mph zones in Southwark is one of the priorities of the local safer neighbourhoods team. Well, they and the council say it is, in fact they do bugger all.
Taking newer cyclists out on local roads often reveals that, contrary to their expectations, the 'calmed' 20mph zones are far less pleasant places to be on a bike than the local trunk routes. The leafy, suburban village of Dulwich is far more cut and thrust than the churning thoroughfare of Brixton Rd. There may be more, louder, larger, faster traffic in Brixton but it feels less of a threat and behaves far more predictably.
That chimes exactly with my experiences in South London. It's a joy on those rare occasions I find myself either behind or in front of a sensibly driven car and can roll through without molestation.
20mph zones are enforceable in law, but as it is a matter of policy from Westminster down that the zones should be designed such that enforcement isn't necessary we seem to be shafted when their implementation falls short.
Apparently enforcement of 20mph zones in Southwark is one of the priorities of the local safer neighbourhoods team. Well, they and the council say it is, in fact they do bugger all.
Taking newer cyclists out on local roads often reveals that, contrary to their expectations, the 'calmed' 20mph zones are far less pleasant places to be on a bike than the local trunk routes. The leafy, suburban village of Dulwich is far more cut and thrust than the churning thoroughfare of Brixton Rd. There may be more, louder, larger, faster traffic in Brixton but it feels less of a threat and behaves far more predictably.
That chimes exactly with my experiences in South London. It's a joy on those rare occasions I find myself either behind or in front of a sensibly driven car and can roll through without molestation.
20mph zones are enforceable in law, but as it is a matter of policy from Westminster down that the zones should be designed such that enforcement isn't necessary we seem to be shafted when their implementation falls short.
subaqua
What’s the point
- Location
- Leytonstone
it seems so. Cann Hall road is like a speedway , and that includes the National exp[ress coaches on the East of the country run
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
I hit the sump guard on my rally car more often on speed cushions that during races
I've also taken to going over several known ones down the middle of the road to avoid the body grounding between the wheels.recumbentpanda
Veteran
Re cyclists observing speed limits, I think some posters are overlooking the point that reduced limits are not only about safety. I remember having sight of truly shocking research done, I think, in Bristol, showing very graphically how the number of friendships between neighbours in a street dropped radically with increasing amount and speed of traffic. Add to this the fact that, while cyclists may not present a high risk of injury to others, pedestrians do feel highly stressed by having to share space with bikes. Reduced speed for vehicles of all kinds in cities reduces stress as well as risk, and promotes better social life. Regardless of the 'letter of the law' I believe these are strong reasons why cyclists should observe limits.
Here is an article from teh Sun that should have won an award for the poor level of journalism explaining how deaths increase in 20 mph zones.
These figures came from a local Councillor and are the total deaths for Portsmouth, attributing them to 20 mph zones is completely dishonest and deceitful.
These figures came from a local Councillor and are the total deaths for Portsmouth, attributing them to 20 mph zones is completely dishonest and deceitful.
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Which if not done with thought makes them feel oppressive to vulnerable road users.
Admittedly this is a 30mph limit but witness a fair number of utility riders riding cycling towards Sawston from the North ride up the bypass to come into the Village via Mill Ln bypassing 2 pinch points. The situation is not helped by the fact that at this one there is often a cars parked a bit up the road past the bypass causing cyclist/motorist, or a car actually blocking the bypass completely.
Linford
Guest
[QUOTE 2447885, member: 45"]Only if you're incompetent.[/quote]
You failed your motorbike test didn't you . You aren't really in a position to judge the competency of others who regularly ride ptw's or what they consider a danger to them when you've not ridden one for the best part of 20 years....or before speed cushions were introduced.....
You failed your motorbike test didn't you . You aren't really in a position to judge the competency of others who regularly ride ptw's or what they consider a danger to them when you've not ridden one for the best part of 20 years....or before speed cushions were introduced.....
Linford
Guest
I thought the whole place was a 20 mph zone
Linford
Guest
20's are ignored unless they have cams monitoring the average speeds. This is very much the case in Gloucester
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
It depends how much local support there is for the 20 limit & the % of traffic they make up. Cambridge has a lot of unmonitored 20mph limits which are ignored even if they are calmed (Grange rd being a good example. At 20mph I'm frequently overtaken by cars doing about 30-35mph between the pinch-point speed cushions). Mainly because the locals make up virtually none of the road traffic in those areas &/or there isn't much local support. In other areas where the locals make up a significant minority of the traffic & they support the limit there is much less speeding.
