Is it just me that doesn't like the Brompton?

[CopperBrompton]

Everything else about them from the looks, the value for money and, most importantly of all, the ride quality, is lacking.

The looks, maybe. Value for money is fantastic. You can buy a brand new one, ride it every day for 5+ years and still get two-thirds of your money back. Buy a secondhand one and you'll get 100% of your money back years later, making it free. Ride quality is great IMV – rock solid, fast to accelerate, incredibly manoeuvrable (a key requirement in London traffic).

 

[Kempston]

When I talk about value for money, I'm talking about what you get for it, not what someone is willing to pay five years down the line.

And after spending a considerable amount of time riding a Brompton, I can only assume we have very different views on what constitutes ride quality. How anything that flexes as much as a Brompton does can be described as rock solid is beyond me. For me they have a very disconcerting ride.

 

[Deleted member 23692]

We have a couple at work for use as office bikes, and the folded size and portability is superb. I grew up riding an RSW16 and a Brompton is similar ride experiences which although not great, is always a fun nostalgia trip for me, so there's no complaints there.

It's the quality and design of the components that I find astonishingly poor considering it's a £1000(ish) bike. Compared with the look of a Dahon Mu SL (for example) a Brompton looks like a £200 BSO.

But I'm not a potential buyer for one, and there are plenty that will fork out the asking price.

 

[colmac2000]

That is normal.

Really? But will my £1105 bike not immediately become rusty now...? Is this not...a bit...rubbish?

 

[jay clock]

When I talk about value for money, I'm talking about what you get for it, not what someone is willing to pay five years down the line.

And after spending a considerable amount of time riding a Brompton, I can only assume we have very different views on what constitutes ride quality. How anything that flexes as much as a Brompton does can be described as rock solid is beyond me. For me they have a very disconcerting ride.

Flexing? mine flexes about as much as a steel girder. Apart from the bizarre looks, the harsh ride is the only bad bit. But that is all offset by the huge practicality particularly commuting daily on a very crowded trains (South West Trains) where spaces to slot in the Brompton are limited, and the Dahon would simply have to sit in the aisle as it would not fit behind the seats.

I certainly don't find the Brompton fast though by the way

 

[Pale Rider]

Some of the minor components were a bit cheap, but they have been upgraded in the last few years.

In all important areas a Brompton is bomb proof.

London commuters thrash them across town twice a day for years on end - not many bikes will stand that.

Some people tour the world on them - not many bikes will stand that.

As regards the frame flexing, I always took it as the compliant feel of steel as opposed to the harshness of aluminium.

Even the ride isn't so terrible, the choc-shock does a good job of smoothing the back end.

As a Brompton dealer told me: "Say what you like about them, but a Brompton is a bike you need only buy once."

 

[CopperBrompton]

[QUOTE 3614476, member: 45"]You can't buy a cheap 2nd hand Brimpton[/QUOTE]
Er, yeah, there's a reason for that ...

Mine is one of the best-value products I've ever bought. It's by far the most practical London bike on the market, great to ride, last forever on London's crappy roads, folded package acceptable anywhere from a greasy spoon to a Michelin-starred restaurant, brilliant bag system (with huge choice of bags) and so much aftermarket support you can have anything from a stock bike to one where the frame is the only original component.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Your point seems to be that you pay more for a Brompton; I'm saying that's not coincidence.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Ok, I know I'm a fan, but this is an interesting debate!

I don't get the references to frame flexing. Despite my attempts to thrash the life out of it so far, I don't notice anything resembling frame flex, like Jay Clock it all seems a bit girder like to me. Bear in mind that you have a hinge for the rear-triangle which could give that feeling. I'm 85kg approx with the std saddle, Brompton tyres at 100psi and the hard suspension block and don't find the ride that harsh. OK it's not as plush as my old 531 Holdsworth (neither does it flex so much), but it's not bad at all over the 30+ mile trips I've done on it so far. Over rough German cobbles along the Rhine it's a bit teeth chattery, but that's more likely due to 16" wheels. Harsh ride and flexy seems an odd combination.
In terms of speed I find it pretty damn quick! OK, it's not for the Sunday morning pseudo-peleton-race-wannabe run, but it's plenty fast enough for commuting, FNRttC, social riding and is not slow against hybrids, slicked MTB's ridden by every day Joes. It accelerates faster then most bikes and around town is far more nimble than a regular bike which now to me feels barge-like in comparison. Luggage options are good too.
After trying a Brompton and a Dahon, the Brompton gave me the biggest grin factor.

In terms of VFM, that's always a difficult question. Certainly one of the reasons for the high cost is the fact that it's hand made/customisable in London rather than a std product from the far east. Neither is it a high volume product. Also, to enable the unique fold etc. a lot of parts are Brompton specific which again adds more cost compared to OEM supply. So the build cost of a Brompton is going to be higher compared to a Dahon for example. The rest is 'Market Pricing' and currently the evidence is that whether it's the extra utility, the adaptableness, the fashion appeal, back-up, service, longevity whatever, the Brompton seems to be able to command and hold a higher price in comparison to many other mainstream folders because the purchasers deem it worth the extra. In my case there are good flight-case options and aircraft accesibility and portability with a Brompton which for me is also a benefit worth the extra cost.

@colmac2000
If you're really not that enamoured, then maybe it's best to sell it on?
Alternatively, approach it with a different mindset (post-purchase dissonance is not unusual among bike buyers either). Clearly there is a disconnect between your expectation and the reality which is not uncommon. Sometimes appreciation takes time.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Update:
Have just had a mad-blast into town and looking for frame flex .... to me as I usually ride the main frame feels pretty girder stiff (with a slight 'steely' resilience maybe), however, depending on how I rode it, you can certainly generate flex in the handlebar tube from the headset to the bars. How much of this you feel depends on how you ride. I tend on all my bikes including the Brompton have the saddle waaay back on the rails and am well-planted enough to be very light on the bars, so don't really feel much movement or flex here. If I haul hard on them I can create flex. Riding the Brommie with a spinny pedal action I don't really need to haul on the bars either. Maybe this is why I don't notice it's 'flexiness'.
Hard to tell with the seatpost but something so long must have some kind of movement but I reckon that to be true of other folders. The Brommie saddle is quite compliant, so a harder saddle like a Brooks might give a different experience of movement and harshness.

 

[colmac2000]

@colmac2000
If you're really not that enamoured, then maybe it's best to sell it on?
Alternatively, approach it with a different mindset (post-purchase dissonance is not unusual among bike buyers either). Clearly there is a disconnect between your expectation and the reality which is not uncommon. Sometimes appreciation takes time.

Yeah, I'm thinking there's an element of buyer's remorse going on and I should probably give it a bit more of a chance. I am a bit concerned that the finish on my particular one is a bit sub standard - I noticed the paint around the corner of one of the joints was a bit bubbly and obviously with the pressure of the clamp this has now flaked off. Although I suppose these kinds of chips and scratches are inevitable anyway. So - how do people deal with the rust issue?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's an element of buyer's remorse going on and I should probably give it a bit more of a chance. I am a bit concerned that the finish on my particular one is a bit sub standard - I noticed the paint around the corner of one of the joints was a bit bubbly and obviously with the pressure of the clamp this has now flaked off. Although I suppose these kinds of chips and scratches are inevitable anyway. So - how do people deal with the rust issue?

If it's a case of poor manufacture and the paint really starts to flake-off or bubble in non-contact areas then contact the dealer or Brompton direct. From what I hear their service is very good.
Maybe you could post some pictures and the more experienced can tell you if it's normal or not?

My '82 Holdsworth has some very large areas where the paint has come-off, like under the BB shell and a lot of other cosmetic down to the metal scratches it doesn't seem to rust. I just wipe those bits over with an oily rag when I clean it.

 

[srw]

[QUOTE 3614476, member: 45"]I don't think value for money is good at all. It's not about initial price v sell-off price. You can't buy a cheap 2nd hand Brimpton, so it's irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
I think you're making the wrong comparison. The Brompton is designed so that the value-for-money comparison is against an annual season ticket on city centre public transport. Which is why I bought my first one - the marginal cost on the annual season ticket of zone-one travel was only slightly less than the cost of the Brompton. I kept it when I moved because the enjoyment and quality of ride outweighed the zero marginal cost of zone-one travel from my new house.

 

[srw]

[QUOTE 3614577, member: 45"]No, that's not my point. It's pretty clear.[/QUOTE]
So what is your point? I'm afraid it's not desperately clear to me.

 

[Ganymede]

I think you're making the wrong comparison. The Brompton is designed so that the value-for-money comparison is against an annual season ticket on city centre public transport. Which is why I bought my first one - the marginal cost on the annual season ticket of zone-one travel was only slightly less than the cost of the Brompton. I kept it when I moved because the enjoyment and quality of ride outweighed the zero marginal cost of zone-one travel from my new house.

I also notice with my friend in London who has become devoted to her Brompton, that there is a huge payoff in the reduction of anxiety about bike parking/theft. She is not well-off and the loss of a bike makes a massive dent in her daily budget - even if she gets it back or claims insurance, she still has to suddenly start paying travel fares for however long it takes. Her work takes her all over London at random times so the saving of worry is immense - also it takes less time to fold and carry than to park and lock when she arrives - also she essentially doesn't need to take a lock!