Is this morally wrong...
- Thread starter buggi
- Start date
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wafflycat
New Member
- Location
- middle of Norfolk
Night Train said:In the same way I would go into Ann Summers to, er, buy stuffbut I didn't want my god daughters going in because the thought they saw something that was interesting.
There's an Ann Summers store in one Chapelfield shopping centre in Norwich. Went in and was utterly gobsmacked to see women in there with there kids. Utterly inappropriate.
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
I say le tkids be kids for as long as possible. I cringe when I see little girls dressed like some kind of cheap cover girl,the parents should be ashamed. I see no harm if the little girls want to immitate their mothers or older sisters...thats jus tnormal, but for parents to dress them deliberatly in a provocative way is sick. Have you seen those american pagent shows with kids as young as 5 dressed up like Madonna on heat...yuck.
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
Audaciously marketed goods aimed at stupid people who'd be mortified if their daughters became sexually active at that age, but seemingly on-side for dressing them like something the cat dragged in.
Riding in Circles
Veteran
- Location
- EDINBURGH
Good letter, I have a 12 year old daughter and already she is growing up to fast, I recall a tv show I saw in the U.S. last year on child beauty queens, these kids were entirely sexualised, with mothers dressing their 5-8 year old daughters provocatively and applying tarty make up, all very proud to be pimping their children out to a sick world.
this is what i got today, so i look forward to her reply
"Dear Antonia
I am writing to confirm receipt of your complaint e-mail - and to inform you
that a response from Rose Foster will follow shortly.
Kind regards
Nick
Nick Raynor-Banks
Assistant to the Chief Executive
La Senza Ltd"
"Dear Antonia
I am writing to confirm receipt of your complaint e-mail - and to inform you
that a response from Rose Foster will follow shortly.
Kind regards
Nick
Nick Raynor-Banks
Assistant to the Chief Executive
La Senza Ltd"
got-to-get-fit
New Member
- Location
- Yarm, Cleveland
The local public school in our town lets their young ladies parade around in school uniform and huuuuuggggeeeee high heels. Now then ...short skirts, tights, white blouses open to the clevage and high heels on a 14/15 year old is surely the sort of thing schools should be discouraging.
Im no prude and i reckon young girls should be able to express themselves but this is just too overtly sexy. I reckon the local paedos must be having a field day.
Im no prude and i reckon young girls should be able to express themselves but this is just too overtly sexy. I reckon the local paedos must be having a field day.
well, this is her reply:
"Dear Ms Dennis
Thank you for your recent email regarding La Senza Girl. I am very sorry that you were unhappy with the range and would like to address some of your concerns.
The La Senza Girl range was introduced after much research and consideration and has been carefully and sensitively designed with young girls in mind. The product range is primarily aimed at women buying for their daughters or nieces and mainly consists of crop tops and briefs. The small range of bras is obviously designed for older girls as a first bra and is sized appropriately - not by age. We do not promote bras for 5 year olds anywhere in our stores.
The colours are bright and lively with minimal trim and are therefore are not in any way intended to mimic the adult La Senza range. We do not have any bras in the range which are "enhancer bras" and we have never positioned the product for "dressing up".
We have had some very positive feedback from mothers who have purchased the product and we continue to listen to customer feedback on all of our products so we can regularly review our ranges.
I hope I have helped to alleviate some of your concerns, and please be assured that as a company, we take our responsibilities very seriously and would never do anything to offend or encourage anyone to behave inappropriately.
Kind regards
Rose Foster
Chief Executive"
and this is my final reply to her:
Dear Rose
Thank you for replying to my email.
I do appreciate that you have replied to me personally and, whilst I do not want to get into a long exchange of emails (and I'm sure neither do you), I have taken into account everything you have said and feel I should reply with my thoughts to your comments.
Whilst I appreciate that some of the range is more tame (crop tops for instance), I would like to point out the following:
1. the "enhancer" bra (as I will refer to it in this email) I saw, whilst I realise was not actually an enhancer bra, it did look like one. I did not realise it was in childrens sizes until I went over to the stand to look at it. My point being that it first attracted my attention because I thought it was an adult bra.
2. Whilst I appreciate your opinion that La Senza does not promote bra's for 5 year olds, I saw both the crop tops and the "enhancer" bra. Had it of only been cropped tops and knickers, you probably would not have had an email from me, I probably would have just thought it a bit inappropriate and walked away. It was the "enhancer" bra that angered me and spurred me into writing to you. I even went back to the stand to check the sizes in the "enhancer" bra in the hope that La Senza had had at least some sense and aimed them at age 10 and it was just the cropped tops for the younger children, but I am saddened to say the lowest size available in the "enhancer" bra in the Leamington shop was a "small". Size "small" as stated on your stand corresponded to, from my memory, aged 7-8. As every other size on the stand was available I just presumed that the extra small (aged 5-6) had sold out. Even so, if extra small is not available in that particular bra, I still feel that a 7 year old should not be wearing it (nor 10 year olds for that matter).
3. In all honesty, I don't think the crop tops are appropriate for a 5 year old anyway as it is more like a bra than a vest, but simply having the range in your shop is promoting "dressing up". Your whole shop is full of pretty sexy underwear with pictures of models dressed up looking gorgeous. What child up to the age of 10 isn't going to want to look like this, without fully understanding the meaning behind it, but can we not at least strive to protect them until they are in their teens?
4. Many of your adult stuff is "bright and lively but with minimal trim" so I fail to see how it does not mimic this.
5. I am not sure where you did your research (Thailand by any chance?), but all of my friends are shocked by this. Also I believe if the research had been carried out correctly you would not have had such an uproar from campaign groups.
6. Again, I would like to say that I consider La Senza to be an adult store and feel it wholly inappropriate for it to sell children's underwear in any event. You only need to walk into your shops to know you're not going to find a pair of Bridget Jones' favourite big biege pants on sale! Everything is aimed at being flirty and sexy, even most of your "plain" range are also enhancer bras.
From the latest reports I see that La Senza seems to be doing very well with its profit margin and I feel it's a shame that you feel the need for La Senza to go down this marketing route, when you are doing so well without it. People will obviously come to be de-sensitized to it the longer you keep it on sale, but where will that take you in a few years time... thongs for children perhaps? Maybe it would be better to take the moral stand now?
If, after all the uproar, La Senza feels it still wishes to introduce a children's range maybe you should rethink your designs, stick to pretty but appropriate (perhaps vests for 5 year olds?) and as far as bra's for older children who develop early are concerned, keep them pretty and practical, rather than sexy. Just because some chlidren develop breasts at 9 or 10 doesn't mean they are mentally ready for them or what follows.
As said above, I am sure you do not wish to get into a long exchange of emails of my opinion versus your own, so a simple acknowledgement of this email would be nice, and I wish you well and hope you take my comments on board. "
"Dear Ms Dennis
Thank you for your recent email regarding La Senza Girl. I am very sorry that you were unhappy with the range and would like to address some of your concerns.
The La Senza Girl range was introduced after much research and consideration and has been carefully and sensitively designed with young girls in mind. The product range is primarily aimed at women buying for their daughters or nieces and mainly consists of crop tops and briefs. The small range of bras is obviously designed for older girls as a first bra and is sized appropriately - not by age. We do not promote bras for 5 year olds anywhere in our stores.
The colours are bright and lively with minimal trim and are therefore are not in any way intended to mimic the adult La Senza range. We do not have any bras in the range which are "enhancer bras" and we have never positioned the product for "dressing up".
We have had some very positive feedback from mothers who have purchased the product and we continue to listen to customer feedback on all of our products so we can regularly review our ranges.
I hope I have helped to alleviate some of your concerns, and please be assured that as a company, we take our responsibilities very seriously and would never do anything to offend or encourage anyone to behave inappropriately.
Kind regards
Rose Foster
Chief Executive"
and this is my final reply to her:
Dear Rose
Thank you for replying to my email.
I do appreciate that you have replied to me personally and, whilst I do not want to get into a long exchange of emails (and I'm sure neither do you), I have taken into account everything you have said and feel I should reply with my thoughts to your comments.
Whilst I appreciate that some of the range is more tame (crop tops for instance), I would like to point out the following:
1. the "enhancer" bra (as I will refer to it in this email) I saw, whilst I realise was not actually an enhancer bra, it did look like one. I did not realise it was in childrens sizes until I went over to the stand to look at it. My point being that it first attracted my attention because I thought it was an adult bra.
2. Whilst I appreciate your opinion that La Senza does not promote bra's for 5 year olds, I saw both the crop tops and the "enhancer" bra. Had it of only been cropped tops and knickers, you probably would not have had an email from me, I probably would have just thought it a bit inappropriate and walked away. It was the "enhancer" bra that angered me and spurred me into writing to you. I even went back to the stand to check the sizes in the "enhancer" bra in the hope that La Senza had had at least some sense and aimed them at age 10 and it was just the cropped tops for the younger children, but I am saddened to say the lowest size available in the "enhancer" bra in the Leamington shop was a "small". Size "small" as stated on your stand corresponded to, from my memory, aged 7-8. As every other size on the stand was available I just presumed that the extra small (aged 5-6) had sold out. Even so, if extra small is not available in that particular bra, I still feel that a 7 year old should not be wearing it (nor 10 year olds for that matter).
3. In all honesty, I don't think the crop tops are appropriate for a 5 year old anyway as it is more like a bra than a vest, but simply having the range in your shop is promoting "dressing up". Your whole shop is full of pretty sexy underwear with pictures of models dressed up looking gorgeous. What child up to the age of 10 isn't going to want to look like this, without fully understanding the meaning behind it, but can we not at least strive to protect them until they are in their teens?
4. Many of your adult stuff is "bright and lively but with minimal trim" so I fail to see how it does not mimic this.
5. I am not sure where you did your research (Thailand by any chance?), but all of my friends are shocked by this. Also I believe if the research had been carried out correctly you would not have had such an uproar from campaign groups.
6. Again, I would like to say that I consider La Senza to be an adult store and feel it wholly inappropriate for it to sell children's underwear in any event. You only need to walk into your shops to know you're not going to find a pair of Bridget Jones' favourite big biege pants on sale! Everything is aimed at being flirty and sexy, even most of your "plain" range are also enhancer bras.
From the latest reports I see that La Senza seems to be doing very well with its profit margin and I feel it's a shame that you feel the need for La Senza to go down this marketing route, when you are doing so well without it. People will obviously come to be de-sensitized to it the longer you keep it on sale, but where will that take you in a few years time... thongs for children perhaps? Maybe it would be better to take the moral stand now?
If, after all the uproar, La Senza feels it still wishes to introduce a children's range maybe you should rethink your designs, stick to pretty but appropriate (perhaps vests for 5 year olds?) and as far as bra's for older children who develop early are concerned, keep them pretty and practical, rather than sexy. Just because some chlidren develop breasts at 9 or 10 doesn't mean they are mentally ready for them or what follows.
As said above, I am sure you do not wish to get into a long exchange of emails of my opinion versus your own, so a simple acknowledgement of this email would be nice, and I wish you well and hope you take my comments on board. "
Dayvo
just passin' through
- Location
- 59° 50′ 5.55″ N, 10° 47′ 41.89″ E
Good on ya, buggi! 
Takes some guts to write, and then reply in that style!
While the vast majority here, if not all of us, are NOT prudes, there is (IMO) NO place for these kind of clothing products for young children/girls.
I'm sure it's been taken on board, but they're probably laughing at it, whilst hearing the cash tills filling.
Chavs seem to rule, at present. At present, then comes the future!
Takes some guts to write, and then reply in that style!
While the vast majority here, if not all of us, are NOT prudes, there is (IMO) NO place for these kind of clothing products for young children/girls.
I'm sure it's been taken on board, but they're probably laughing at it, whilst hearing the cash tills filling.
Chavs seem to rule, at present. At present, then comes the future!
mondobongo
Über Member
Well done Buggi, your reply is well written and really rams the point home.
got-to-get-fit said:
I don't feel the morals in this country are what they used to be !
Checking children doesn't happen now compared to what it was.
Hence an 'age' of child that is generally unruly.
Its simply the parents whom are TOO bothered in regards to themselves and some people hate that statement esp. parents, yet its fact!
i've got another bugbear now. i was talking to my friends son today (whilst watching raiders of the lost ark) and he asked me what the ark of the covenant was. i said "well, you know moses..."
apparently he doesn't know anything about moses because he didn't do Religious Education.
why not?
because he told the teacher he thought it was a load of tripe and so the school didn't want to offend him and let him opt out.
he's WHITE too!
i said, "well, there is nothing wrong in learning about different religions and in fact a lot of history is tied up with religion, for instance egyptian history".
see, i hate that, that in this country they don't teach kids about christianity.
apparently he doesn't know anything about moses because he didn't do Religious Education.
why not?
because he told the teacher he thought it was a load of tripe and so the school didn't want to offend him and let him opt out.
he's WHITE too!
i said, "well, there is nothing wrong in learning about different religions and in fact a lot of history is tied up with religion, for instance egyptian history".
see, i hate that, that in this country they don't teach kids about christianity.
Night Train
Maker of Things
- Location
- Greater Manchester
From my experience teaching year 10 and 11 it would seem that they are not even taught to read, write or use numbers.
How is it a year 11 kid cannot tell which marks on a ruler are millimeters and centimeters, or what half of 2 centimeters is? They can't even measure a short bit of wood and find the centre!
How is it a year 11 kid cannot tell which marks on a ruler are millimeters and centimeters, or what half of 2 centimeters is? They can't even measure a short bit of wood and find the centre!
