London proposal to ban thousands of lorries

[hatler]

[QUOTE 4492101, member: 9609"]Obviously better designed lorries will improve matters, but for me the problem does not lie there, we need better drivers, good fully alert fully switched on drivers are not the problem. I have read many of the reports where cyclists have been killed by lorries and in an astonishing amount of the cases the driver has been playing with a phone, the driver didn't have a licence, the driver was banned, the driver was an alcoholic and had numerous convictions for drink driving, the driver was texting, even one recently where the driver was busy tidying his cab when he killed a cyclist! It seems to me that in so many cases the person driving should never have been given the keys, these morons will cause carnage in the best designed truck in the world.

I would also like to take a look at drivers hours, 10 hours driving in a 13 hour day is not a problem on long distance, but that is too much in a town centre environment, drivers are going to get tired and make mistakes working those hours in high stress driving.
I would propose (and I'm sure the technology is there) tachos that record double time when in a built up area and also force hauliers to pay double rates to drivers for that time. This would have a number of beneficial points;
Drivers are going to be working less hours and more likely to remain focused.
The shorter days for the same money will make the jobs more desirable, better drivers with years of experience may be tempted by the work! it's not a popular part of the industry to work in - too often this type of work is given to newbies and idiots that no one else will employ.

There is a lot of good drivers out their who have been driving lorries for decades and never cause even the slightest of problems to others no matter what the cab design, on the other hand there are the morons who cause no end of problems - in many cases it is the person driving the truck that needs redesigned not the lorry.[/QUOTE]
I think that ^^^^ contains a great deal of sense.

 

[Drago]

If the residents of London stopped buying so much unnecessary and worthless crap then there would only be half as many lorries anyway. The lorries are only feeding the consumer society that those same residents are, for the most part, all too keen to perpetuate.

 

[Roxy641]

View attachment 146111

Or they could use trains to transporting goods. But that isn't in their "Vested interests"

 

[Roxy641]

Not for final delivery to customer in most instances.

Most final deliveries are delievered to people by a small to medium vans, not lorries. I guess the exception would be if a person buys a large item (such as a bed), but most people aren't buying a large item on a regular basis, they are buying things that typically will fit in a van.

 

[EnPassant]

Not for final delivery to customer in most instances.

Indeed. However there was also a mass move to the roads over canals and rail historically for economic reasons. There are vested interests that would like to keep it that way.

Hub and spoke, rail, canals even for delivery to local hubs, vans and small lorries to final destination if needs be.

 

[Roxy641]

As I recall, the vehicle with the sticker was more of a van than a lorry.

Than fair enough. But not all of us order online that involves a van to deliver to us. And before I get the full time workers saying "But I work five days a week and don't have time to go to the shops". When I had a full time job I still managed to go to the shops, and take the good(s) home with me (and I didn't even have a car). Some shops have late opening hours one day a week. I realise I may be in a minority here though. So, the point is, it isn't that we have to stop buying things, but try and find alternatives if we really want less lorries/vans on the road. We can either be part of the solution, or we can be part of the problem. It can be something that we choose to do. For larger items, I realise we can't always have that option.

 

[raleighnut]

A lot of clothes are delivered hanging on wheeled racks, takes a big trailer to get them in.

 

[Roxy641]

A lot of clothes are delivered hanging on wheeled racks, takes a big trailer to get them in.

And before the use of the mass use of lorries to transport them, they would have been been transported by railways, it was never the customers decision to transport them by road. There is only so much we can blame consumers rather than the people that have the power to decide how they are delivered.

 

[mjr]

It's difficult enough to get some retailers to let me get the last leg done by friendly cycling or bike-respecting Royal Mail, DPD or APC, rather than bloody dangerous traffic-law-flouting Yodel or UPS. Now I'm supposed to try to get them to restock by rail? I'll ask but it's unlikely to work...

 

[jonny jeez]

[QUOTE 4492160, member: 45"]It's the tipper trucks that are the killers.

If only Londoners would stop building things.[/QUOTE]
I do believe that this is a valid point. But why cant tipper trucks be restricted to stay away from city centres during the rush hours. The rush hour must be the most uneconomical time to deliver construction materials either way.

Ideally they would only have access after around 7.00 but I appreciate the knock on effect this would have to construction efforts and general modernisation...such as the delivery of safe secure cycleways.

 

[ianrauk]

I do believe that this is a valid point. But why cant tipper trucks be restricted to stay away from city centres during the rush hours. The rush hour must be the most uneconomical time to deliver construction materials either way.

Ideally they would only have access after around 7.00 but I appreciate the knock on effect this would have to construction efforts and general modernisation...such as the delivery of safe secure cycleways.

Rush hour traffic in London is now near enough all day.

 

[jonny jeez]

Rush hour traffic in London is now near enough all day.

For cars perhaps but for more vulnerable types like pedestrians and cyclists...definitely not

 

[ianrauk]

For cars perhaps but for more vulnerable types like pedestrians and cyclists...definitely not

Well, less car traffic means less build up which means more space for peds and cyclists. London is just full to the brim with everything and evryone. Banning lorries during rush hour or any hour in that fact is not the answer.

 

[jonny jeez]

Well, less car traffic means less build up which means more space for peds and cyclists. London is just full to the brim with everything and evryone. Banning lorries during rush hour or any hour in that fact is not the answer.

space isn't the issue at all Ian. It's the danger that these vehicles present. That is the "positive point" that this suggested policy admits.

I'm talking about reducing the amount of time vulnerable road users are in the proximity of dangerous vehicles, with extremely limited vision, no impact or crumple zones and often exposed machinery that can entangle or catch.

I'm not talking about creating more space.

 

[srw]

And before the use of the mass use of lorries to transport them, they would have been been transported by railways, it was never the customers decision to transport them by road.

In London and the SouthEast, the railways are full with passenger traffic. There is (as near as makes no difference) no room to add goods trains to the mix.