Personal crisis ,need your help CC's

[peanut]

My elderly Father may need to go into care in the not too distant future. He lives alone and is 86 . up until a few months ago he was very capable and organised but for the past few months he has been showing all the signs of dementia coming on.

I am going to visit tonight to assess the situation and may try to get him to move down to where we can take care of him.

I am concerned that if he has to have care, Social Services might try to take his home away from him and sell it. They already tried that when his wife passed away 5 years ago with Altziemers but she died before it came to that

. I wouldn't want him to have to go through that again and naturally I also don't want my Sisters and I to lose our inheritence.

I'm aware the law has changed recently but know nothing of the implications. What experience and advice can you give me ? I'm so distraught at the moment I can't think straight and am physically sick and shaking like a leaf.

Not sure if I'll get your messages until I return from London but will appreciate any help given thanks
Nick

 

[fossyant]

May be worth seeking solicitor's advice PDQ just in case. The main thing is to protect his 'property' before he may need 'care'.

 

[peanut]

yes I know but I don't think you can now which is why i'm asking for advice from those who do know something about it.

I think SS would call it avoidence or something I think they closedn all the loopholes.

Can't afford Solicitors but they would only make it all official which would limit the options . Plus they are generally money grabbig wottsits looking to squeeze every available penny out of your problem without giving anything away.
Solicitors NO

 

[JtB]

Sorry to hear that peanut, it's a distressing situation indeed for all.

I think it depends on what your father's needs are. If his condition requires residential care, then this will need to be paid for from savings and ultimately the sale of his home. But if his condition is more severe and requires full time nursing care then he can be assessed to have his nursing care 'fully funded' by the NHS. I'm suspecting that if he's been able to live by himself until now then his condition is not yet sufficiently severe for him to qualify for 'fully funded' nursing care, but its worth asking for the assessment anyway.

Good luck m8.

 

[Archie_tect]

Peanut, go and see a solicitor asap to organise setting up a trust fund so that your father's assets are secured in trust for his dependants but giving him rights to access the interesta nd an allowance from the fund during his lifetime.

[*Edit after reading your last post: a solicitor should be able to use a standard form and complete it with you for a standard nominal fee... we got our wills done including a trust for the children bound into the wording for £40 each]

A solicitor with experience in family law will have pro-forma examples which they will be able to guide you through.

Google for information so that you are prepared.

It makes sense for you and your father to do this to protect him should anything happen to you as well.

Also you might consider that your father needs to give power of attourney to you and your siblings before he is unable to make such decisions as his condition worsens. He may be worrying about this so guide him through it if he's able.

Wish you luck and hope it is soon resolved as it is incredibly stressful and upsetting for you.

Chris

 

[orienteer]

An option is to sell the house and buy an immediate needs annuity with the proceeds, there might even be some left over depending on particular circumstances. This will pay for his care for the rest of his life. There are only 3 or 4 companies that sell these.

I did this for an elderly couple without children of their own a few years ago.

 

[PK99]

I am concerned that if he has to have care, Social Services might try to take his home away from him and sell it. They already tried that when his wife passed away 5 years ago with Altziemers but she died before it came to that


Nick

This will not be the answer you want.

Why should a low paid worker pay tax to protect your inheritance? (The argument is different with a surviving spouse still resident)

If an elderly person were living in rented accommodation and had a significant pot of savings, would there be an argument for protecting that pot of savings if they needed to go into residential care?

When I was in your position, i sold the house (using an Enduring Power of Attorney), invested the money in an interest bearing account in Mum's name and paid the Nursing home bills from the interest and drawing down on the capital. All with my brother's full agreement.

 

[beanzontoast]

Nick - So sorry to read this. My own father's in his mid 80's and getting less and less capable, so I can empathise with the problems of what to do for the best. I'm not looking forward to having to sort it out if/when the time comes, because I'm not sure what he will want to do. I have a brother locally and am hoping between us we will work something out.

I'm really sending this also to say - about the stuff I pm'd and emailed you about yesterday and today - completely understand that you are tied up with sorting your dad out now. Won't expect to hear from you until you really have time and are feeling up to it.

All the best,
Clive.

 

[vernon]

If your father needs residential care then I think you'll be kissing your inheritance goodbye. Legislation is not in place to protect your father's house as an asset and you can expect a draw down until around £21000 of assets are left.

It's probably not what you want to hear. As for seeking legal advice - not taking it could be more costly that paying a fee.

Unless you get some pro bono legal advice here from a qualified solicitor I'd beat a path to the door of a solicitor asap.

If you want a free service - then you might strike lucky with your local CAB.

 

[vernon]

When I was in your position, i sold the house (using an Enduring Power of Attorney), invested the money in an interest bearing account in Mum's name and paid the Nursing home bills from the interest and drawing down on the capital. All with my brother's full agreement.

That's what my sister in law did with my mother in law's house with full agreement from my wife.

It was galling to see her asset base dwindle but set against that was the money that would have been lost by one of the two daughters having to sacrifice a career and salary to care for an increasingly batty and dependent woman. I can only imagine the stresses that the full time carer would have been subjected to had 'home care' been elected for.

 

[661-Pete]

Can't offer any advice except best wishes, Nick. Nearly been there, myself, but for us it was as with your mother, my mother passed away before residential care became an option. So for us it was a case of 'might have been' with the same worries that you're going through. I can only share memories and worries: not experience.

Please take heed of other people's advice here and consider the solicitors option! I share with you my distrust of the profession, but a good solicitor can be very helpful in these cases. Maybe your father has a solicitor of his own whom you can contact. Maybe he's made a Will and lodged it with solicitors. Worth enquiring.

 

[Archie_tect]

If he gets care while in his own home he will contribute, and it will be means tested.

No-one 'takes a home' off anyone if they go into care. Charges for residential care are also means tested. So your father's weekly charge will be calculated. If he sells his property then the charge will come out of the money he gets from it. Not in a lump sum of the full amount, but an ongoing charge.

That's worth knowing MrP, my dad is getting very frail- going to have to help him from a distance, unless we can get him up here from Leeds. It's a worry as of our five parents [complicated...best not ask] 3 are now in their 80s and 2 in their late 70s. They are all rational and know that we will be struggling so it's a real worry.

Chris

 

[Noodley]

Best wishes peanut, hope you get it sorted out.

 

[JtB]

The social services do not take homes away, but if there are care fees to pay and the care is not funded by the state then these fees must come out of your father's estate. My experience of the social services is that they do their best to ensure the elderly get the appropriate care they need and also to support the family, so I would not view them as the enemy.

You will need to apply to the Court of Protection for Deputyship which will enable you to manage the affairs of your father. However, the application process is extremely bureaucratic and requires you to fill in reams of paperwork. It is also quite expensive and I believe you have to pay for this yourself and can not deduct the costs from your father's estate (although I'm not 100% certain about this last point). Once you have been awarded Deputyship, you will need to keep very detailed accounts of all income and expenditure and produce annual reports which are audited. Of course the whole process is not setup to protect your father's interests, but rather for the state to protect its own interests and to ensure there will be funds available to pay the care fees (which will probably amount to £600 per week upwards).

As I've already mentioned, if your father has medical needs which require full time nursing care, then he may quality for 'fully funded' care (which is NOT means tested). Also, even if he doesn't qualify for 'fully funded' care, he may still qualify for part of the care to be funded.

PS. Forgot to mention, if you get awarded deputyship by the Court of Protection there will be very strict rules you must follow. If you fail to follow these rules, deputyship may be transferred to someone who will charge huge administration fees (from your father's estate) for doing the job.

PPS. Just found this leaflet on fully funded NHS care which you may find useful:
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/78693/003031.pdf

 

[02GF74]

my sisters friend is in tis unfortunate situation. basicallly coz here father is not sounnd in the mind, he cannot sign over the house to her.

he is in a care home costing a fair bit and she has to pay the fees from his saving and then from selling the house.

so instead of saving his money to pass on to his daughter, he may as well have fritteered it all away....

dunno what to suggest other than seek legal advice.