FNRttC The (not the) Fridays Tour of the Low Countries 2015

[redfalo]

As I'm not sure whether I will be able to take part in the tour at all and I my be biased with regard to cycling in Northern Germany, please take the following comments with a grain of salt or two.
- Frank's view of cycling in northern Germany doesn't do the region justice at all. You would not be slogging through a concreted-over post war zone.
- In a one-week trip, I'd try to minimize the amount of getting there and back. This speaks very much in favour of a trip starting and/or ending at a ferry port. Another issue is that the recce gets more complicated and expensive.
- As hills is not an option for some people, taking the bike on a plane isn't one for others (me included) and carrying non-foldable bikes on trains is for several reasons tedios in Germany. High speed trains don't take any, and Inter City trains have a limited number of bike spaces you have to book in advance. As a group, you can only pre-book them about 8 weeks in advance, so you can't really rely on them. Romatische Strasse may be nice, but wouldbe aconplete and utterlogustical nightmare for a group of 20 riders or so.

 

[frank9755]

As I'm not sure whether I will be able to take part in the tour at all and I my be biased with regard to cycling in Northern Germany, please take the following comments with a grain of salt or two.
- Frank's view of cycling in northern Germany doesn't do the region justice at all. You would not be slogging through a concreted-over post war zone.
- In a one-week trip, I'd try to minimize the amount of getting there and back. This speaks very much in favour of a trip starting and/or ending at a ferry port. Another issue is that the recce gets more complicated and expensive.
- As hills is not an option for some people, taking the bike on a plane isn't one for others (me included) and carrying non-foldable bikes on trains is for several reasons tedios in Germany. High speed trains don't take any, and Inter City trains have a limited number of bike spaces you have to book in advance. As a group, you can only pre-book them about 8 weeks in advance, so you can't really rely on them. Romatische Strasse may be nice, but wouldbe aconplete and utterlogustical nightmare for a group of 20 riders or so.

Apologies. Was not meaning to rubbish your suggestion; just thought I'd throw a couple of alternatives out before everything got fixed. My experience of northern Germany between the Rhine and Berlin is limited to a business trip to Hanover so I speak from negligible experience. Germany is a lot more rural than Britain and I'm sure there'd be lots of very pleasant countryside. I also like trips starting from home to minimise transport hassle. However, if it's a full week, I also like to go somewhere a bit special. And regarding the logistics of getting there, if that CTC group could get to the south, I don't see why it would be beyond us - although I agree that the 2 days on a bus or whatever it was, doesn't sound great!
Likewise, I've no idea what life may throw up in the next year so have no guarantee of being able to make the trip.

 

[StuartG]

I think I sense the issue that, for many of us, Germany is an unknown place cycling wise. We only know the cities except through the window of a car. Its a tiny bit frightening.

Whereas we mostly know France (if only thru DZ's efforts). We nearly all have a smattering of the language, have used chemin de fer etc. We know what we are up for and how to muddle around any issues. We know we are going to enjoy ourselves and the wine and cheese will be a delicious bonus. But then playing safe means most of us would not have got beyond Southend and the M25 Services. It would be a shame not to extend the repertoire even more eastwards.

I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse to suggest more than one Tour for 2015? Possibly the traditional week - and following Uta to the Med sounds great - plus another mini-tour to Germany through Benelux to, say, Koln, as an introduction and a teaser for more? That would be a lot easier to organise logistics wise and give folks more confidence in booking individual accommodation for a bigger trip in 2016?

Bottom line is any extended trip with an average of more than 100km a day scares the pants off me. I'm doing it to enjoy the countryside rather than beat my PB.

 

[mmmmartin]

Frank speaks sooth.

One day someone, perhaps me and perhaps someone else, will have to decide on a destination, do a recce and then explain the plan and sit back and see who signs up for the tour. Maybe no one will sign up at all.....

The opinion seems to be divided between
"near north Europe" - start in Calais, then Belgium, north to Netherlands and home from Harwich with the prevailing wind behind us (logistically easy as it starts and finishes at ferry ports. I've ridden that area and there is no doubt it would be a fantastic tour.)
"Far north Europe", as in to Berlin (probably must have 20 people to make a van a possibility to put the bikes in and carry them back to the Hook while riders take the train - a similar format to the Bordeaux trip)
South of France. Must have at least 20 to make the van a possibility. Bikes in van in London, van drives to Bordeaux, riders fly. Van carries luggage on the trip. At the Med, bikes in van and van drives to London while riders fly. Some will have their own ideas of returning, obvs, just as some did after Bordeaux. Logistically complicated but that isn't something riders should worry about, all they have to do is enjoy themselves. And before you ask, there is no absolute requirement for a skinny-dip in the Med to celebrate reaching the final destination.

So left-of-field comments are very welcome. I'm hoping the entire club will receive an email via Our Glorious Leader within the next week or so which might prompt a flurry of comments.
And finally, as one small step along the logistical road, we now have our very own email address

Fridaystour2015@gmail.com

Well hurrah!

 

[StuartG]

And finally, as one small step along the logistical road, we now have our very own email address
Fridaystour2015@gmail.com

<quickly registers Fridaystour2016@gmail.com, Fridaystour2017@gmail.com, Fridaystour2018@gmail.com ... >

 

[mmmmartin]

I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse to suggest more than one Tour for 2015?

Go ahead.

Bear in mind there are already two opportunities for foreign adventures with the Cherbourg-Caen weekend and the fabulous night Brussels-Ostend with the fabulous @swarm_catcher.
Offering a further two might result in numbers on each week-long trip being too small to afford a van and driver, which makes days longer (you have to do your own lunch shopping) and harder (you have to carry your own luggage) and more complicated for the carriages of bikes on the return.

With Patagonia, PBP, mountain leader stuff and occasional returns to work to pay for all this, I can manage this year to fit in one week for a recce plus one week for the Real Thing so in that sense, yes, you are flogging a dead horse while barking up the wrong tree and breaking the camel's back. Or something.

 

[StuartG]

Go ahead.

Nope. I think we should concentrate on getting the lead ride sorted. Where & When and behind the chosen non-Leader.

Then, if we have any malcontents, blocked weeks, or a taste for something different - a secondary tour might be a goer without, in any way, detracting from the lead ride. And if the lead ride is to Germany then France may be the favoured choice and v.v. The only point I'm making is that we might have a minor ride in 2015 that could develop into a major ride in 2016.

 

[StuartG]

I have no idea how flat or hilly that would be.

The first half is a home run for @swarm_catcher. I think she regularly does it in a day ... a loop up to Amsterdam might be nice.

 

[frank9755]

It would be fairly flat.
I don't know what Dieppe to the Belgian border would be like. That bit could be more prosaic.
The second half would be completely flat, being the reverse of what we (Stuart, Els, Jenny and I) did a couple of years ago. Hence it could take in Westvleteren. And also Bruges, those wonderful bridges over the delta, a good few ferries and loads of beautiful towns and villages. A loop up to Amsterdam could add the windmills at Kinderdijk, Gouda and the Vecht (very pretty) on the way up, and Haarlem, Leiden and Delft + on the way back.
It would be stunning, and extremely pleasant cycling.

 

[mmmmartin]

Genius idea @User
I know a very good English run B&B outside neufchatel that does excellent evening meals inc wine, just a few miles from the Voie Verte, and there is a very nice hotel in neufchatel i have also used. It could be flat-ish along the coast then turn right along a valley and avoid all those busy roads near the Calais conglomeration. This is all well known to The Lovely @swarm_catcher and then we could cross Belgium via those pretty villages and the towns with the ornate town halls (ghent, bruges) and into The Netherlands.

 

[mmmmartin]

this genius idea!

Actually the more I think about it the more I like it.
Getting to the start is fairly easy, there are bail-out options via Calais and Dunkirk, and Lille.
The whole area is littered with railway lines if folk want an easy day.
We need to plan on having insufficient riders for a van, so days need to be easy (flattish) but interesting and this area is good for that - not many days would be the monotone landscape that parts of France offer.
If a van is doable (about 20 riders at £100 each is the number needed to cover the costs of a van and driver) then the cost can be kept down by returning it to the start at a reasonable cost.
I'll have a look at some maps

 

[BalkanExpress]

Don't forget the Westvleteren diversion, if it's at all possible .

It's always possible to divert there...it's the diverting away again that is sometimes difficult

 

[mmmmartin]

...it's the diverting away again that is sometimes difficult

The cycling after that rest stop might be short. In fact, it may well be that the entire trip is planned around that.

 

[frank9755]

It rather was last time!

 

[mmmmartin]

here's an idea

http://bit.ly/1r4KfJ1

about 500k - not including the nightride from Newhaven, so not an "eyeballs out" tour. Night ride to Newhaven, easy ride to Neufchatel to a decent hotel in the town or to the B&B about five miles away that I have used annually for about 10 years. Avoiding the busy coastal road to the north-west of Dieppe - I rode that in September and it's tedious and busy. Then we turn inland and follow a river valley - I think this is the route followed by The Lovely @swarm_catcher when she does the DIY 200k audax by GPS to her parents' house in Belgium. Then we cross Belgium, and the odd kinks in the route take us to Ostend, which is much more interesting and scenic than you would think, but we avoid the busy coastal route - which can be bloody windy as @StuAff knows from his ride back this May. Then we see Bruges, which is lovely with canals and old stone buildings etc etc. Into the Netherlands and along the coastal dykes which have things called "cycle paths" but anyone who has ridden in the UK will laugh at the term - these are as wide as a busy UK road and banned to all traffic except bikes and maintenance lorries. We pass some enormous pieces of machinery in the dykes, used to control the water levels. You soon see why the job of water engineer in the Netherlands in so important. The strange kink in the route takes us to the museum set up after the floods in 1956 in which 3,000 people died. The buildings of the museum are housed in some concrete cassions left over from D-Day and they were towed across the North Sea and sunk in the gaps in the dykes to keep the floods out. Many countries of the world rushed to help by building houses and those houses are still there today, called "Norway Street" etc etc. I've been there and it was really interesting, Worth a short detour. Then we go along more dykes through the countryside and return on the Hook of Holland ferry to Harwich. Amsterdam is a bit of schlepp and the ferry from Esbjerg has closed - there are rumours of it opening again but only rumours. So we can't bank on it.
This should be an interesting tour, not hard with lots of hills so if you want that you may prefer to follow Simon's tour from Irun to Girona.

Thoughts please - the more critical the better - the "hallelujah chorus" is no good.