Zwift Chat

[Whorty]

Seeing the steering in action really tells you it gives you an advantage, watch Andys race on the downhill and watch him cut the corners , Also I think the smaller the bunch the bigger the advantage. I had a 2 up race around Glasgow crit against someone with steering ,every time I dropped a draft power up he steered me off his wheel and when he dropped an aero he steered me off his wheel . Probably only a marginal gain but every gain counts . I have also noticed in Friday smash most of the others have steering and they seem to line out behind one another and I will be alongside pushing the wind

Yes, that's true .... those marginals can make a difference if you're already on the edge.
I was in a race a few weeks ago. Out and back again, the course that is flat until Volcano KoM ... 4 of us broke away out the dessert and easily stayed together to the KoM. One guy had steering and stayed with us to the top. 3 of us crested together ... by the time we got the the bottom of the descent the guy with steering had gapped us by 30 seconds.

Cutting the corners and removing us from the draft downhill made a massive difference even on a should descent like Volcano.

 

[bridgy]

Sounds like you guys had more fun than I had! Hopefully be back for the next round of tour de splitters.

My dirt league is killer and I'm out of my depth. Dropped on first (v short non segment) climb and in a group of 3 at the very back. Legs just had nothing. Joined another race on flats but could barely hold 2.5w/kg and heart rate sitting really low so think I need a few nights sleep as well.

Upshot is I think I'll leave the dirt league, there's only one person on my team and there's no tactics or anything, we both just get dropped immediately!

That's a shame Michael - these DIRT leagues are really fun, but obviously only if you get in a good team and in league you can compete in. You're a bit hard done by with being in Emerald Cat because I think there's a lot of riders who would previously have been Cat A who are in that category.

Personally I had a bit of a disaster in my race last night. Started really well, got up the first climb OK and was attacking the steep part of Libby for those FAL points right at the front of teh race and feeling good......and my left crank on my Neo bike came loose 🤦‍♂️. I had no option but to stop and tighten it back up but obviously that was my race over and I was dead last. I entertained myself by chasing down two other riders who were a minute or 2 ahead of me and managed to catch and pass both of them - the second one with just metres to go! So at leat I got a bit of a workout, but really disappointing all the same

 

[mjd1988]

Steering is very helpful on crit courses. Sometimes you can overuse it (if you cut a corner and it takes you out of draft then you lose the benefit). In sprint finishes it is also very helpful

Mentally it's very helpful when you are on the edge to eke out every little marginal gain - there is nothing worse than being dropped and feeling like your avatar is choosing that moment to amble off to the side! I have noticed in quite high quality fields a lot more people will have it, which does make it quite fun and immersive

 

[alex_cycles]

I enjoyed the thrash but was mystified how a lot of the time I was doing more watts/kg than people I was drafting, I dont think it was the bike and wheels ( Crux and reserve 25GR) Maybe its cos I am lighter and have to put out similar watts on flattish bits. Anyway elastic snapped towards the end and it was only the fact I knew overall times were counted that I struggled on at a fair power. My watts/kg overall for the race was higher than Steve and Carls who were in front of me ( only 0.2) I need a better understanding of where I am going wrong.

So the reason for this could be bike weight.

If you weigh 50 kg and you're doing 400 Watts, that's 8 W/kg.
If a 100kg rider is doing 800 Watts, that's 8 W/kg.

But if we adjust for bike weight - assuming Tron and Tron wheels - which is 6.6kg - that is a much bigger percentage of the 50kg rider's weight than the 100kg rider. Let's adjust the numbers to show this...

56.6kg rider+bike doing 400 Watts is now 7.06 W/kg
106.6kg rider+bike doing 800 Watts is now 7.50 W/kg

So your lightweight rider loses almost 1 W/kg due to bike weight, but the heavier rider only 0.5 (in this case).


Next time you're doing a long steady climb alongside a much heavier rider, notice how if they're doing 3.0 W/kg you will probably have to be doing ~3.2-3.3 to keep up

 

[mjd1988]

That's a shame Michael - these DIRT leagues are really fun, but obviously only if you get in a good team and in league you can compete in. You're a bit hard done by with being in Emerald Cat because I think there's a lot of riders who would previously have been Cat A who are in that category.

Personally I had a bit of a disaster in my race last night. Started really well, got up the first climb OK and was attacking the steep part of Libby for those FAL points right at the front of teh race and feeling good......and my left crank on my Neo bike came loose 🤦‍♂️. I had no option but to stop and tighten it back up but obviously that was my race over and I was dead last. I entertained myself by chasing down two other riders who were a minute or 2 ahead of me and managed to catch and pass both of them - the second one with just metres to go! So at leat I got a bit of a workout, but really disappointing all the same

Ah nightmare; did your team still do well?

I do really like the dirt format, in many ways it has learned lessons that wtrl just...doesn't.

Yeah I've fallen foul of the cat system. The winner of my race put out 4.9w/kg for 37 minutes or something, I'm never going to be near a front group when that happens!

 

[bridgy]

Ah nightmare; did your team still do well?

I do really like the dirt format, in many ways it has learned lessons that wtrl just...doesn't.

Yeah I've fallen foul of the cat system. The winner of my race put out 4.9w/kg for 37 minutes or something, I'm never going to be near a front group when that happens!

Team didn't do great - we only had 5 starters anyway and although 2 finished with the front group they stilll only got 27th and 30th overall. There's a lot of strong sprinters in our league and I don't really think that's our strength so we lost out on FTS points. As a team we were 8th out of 13. I think if my race had gone normally I'd have contributed some more points to the team and we'd have finished a place or two higher but that's all.

I 100% agree with you that the race format and scoring is much better than ZRL. There's a much better balance between segment and finishing points for starters. If I was to write a list of ways I would change ZRL for the better I think DIRT cover most of them!

 

[HarryTheDog]

Yes, I did notice that Harry was having fun using his steering to take the shortest line around corners, especially through the more zig-zaggy bits! Or was he only trying to stop me and Carl from sitting in his draft?

I only got steering recently and forgot up to that moment I had it so was playing with it, at that time I didnt want to try solo as I knew it would kill me off.

@HarryTheDog Your average w/kg for the race might have been higher than mine, but I'd be interested to see what it was for the main segments, such as the climbs. For me while I averaged 2.7 over the course of the race, there were large chunks where I was at less than 2.3 (downhill and tarmac sections mainly), while at the same time I managed almost 3.1 for the entire second climb, having done 2.85 on the first.

I didnt seem to be able to let off at all on the power without going backwards , 1st valley to mountain top strava segment I was at 215 watts , 2.99w/kg second time 205 2.86. as I was dropped. On Temple Kom ist time 210 watts seond time 213. so around 2.9 both times. Whole dam race was avg 2.91 according to Zwift so I was as pushing fairly consistent power up and down hill . I blame the gravel tyres needing more power to keep them spinning.

Your not doing anything wrong , I think I'm roughly around your weight and experience everything you mention .I can guarantee my w/kgs from last night's race are higher than Andy's who won and dropped me on a downhill a lightweights weak spot .
In smaller races the draft effect is less making you put out more effort to keep up ,zwift is about power until the percentage goes to 4%+ and above were watts per kg takes over

I think it was amplified by the gravel tyres/conditions and possible Zwift calculations.

 

[CXRAndy]

I lwent tubeless gravel tyres , lovely low rolling resistance

 

[13 rider]

Just a note on gravel bike choices ,Last night I did my warm up with D. Maria 1.8w/kg on mixed surfaces , On pavement I was pushing 2.2w/kg and was at the back of the pack hanging on as soon as we hit the gravel I could do 1.7w/kg and went to the front of the group ,it doesn't sound a lot but I could feel the difference which is why I went gravel set up

 

[HarryTheDog]

So the reason for this could be bike weight.

If you weigh 50 kg and you're doing 400 Watts, that's 8 W/kg.
If a 100kg rider is doing 800 Watts, that's 8 W/kg.

But if we adjust for bike weight - assuming Tron and Tron wheels - which is 6.6kg - that is a much bigger percentage of the 50kg rider's weight than the 100kg rider. Let's adjust the numbers to show this...

56.6kg rider+bike doing 400 Watts is now 7.06 W/kg
106.6kg rider+bike doing 800 Watts is now 7.50 W/kg

So your lightweight rider loses almost 1 W/kg due to bike weight, but the heavier rider only 0.5 (in this case).


Next time you're doing a long steady climb alongside a much heavier rider, notice how if they're doing 3.0 W/kg you will probably have to be doing ~3.2-3.3 to keep up

Hmm yes I think I will stay away from Gravel and MTB bike races. Something like specialized Aethos + Roval aplipinists would make us more even.

 

[Legs]

Bram convinced me to ride the ZRL Final scratch race (3 laps of Rolling Highlands) last night for the PedalBoys team. I’d done the Alpha/Leg Openers workout in the morning to try to teach my body how to ride a bike again after 2.5 weeks off, and had then spent much of the day with sore knees and an achy back.

Needless to say, I didn’t exactly set the race alight - in fact, I was quite pleasantly surprised to last until half-distance with the lead group before getting tailed off. Dylan (former Splitter) had tried a brave solo move on the first lap but had not got more than a few seconds; then he’d been dropped - we joined up with two others and rode to the finish together. The others clearly wanted for fight over 36th position, so I put down a respectable minute’s power on the Breakaway Brae to claim a fine Pyrrhic victory.

Woke up this morning with a sore throat and runny nose - I blame the woman next to me on Ryanair…

F*ck's sake - the predicted holiday bumwee has struck me down now that I'm home and trying to get some riding time back in...

 

[CXRAndy]

Today race event Zwift Big Spin London Flat. Only two Categories AB. Aim to hang on to B group for as long as I could

View: https://youtu.be/jPL0vX_gu-4?si=rfnuuRWbBmDu00vc

 

[CXRAndy]

Lost my video again , arrgh

This did make me chuckle when I saw Phil's comment after the finish

 

[CXRAndy]

Sorry Phil Didn't mean to put you under so much early pressure

 

[CXRAndy]

Downloaded OBS screen recorder now. Another thing to learn