12mph trial in the Netherlands

[annedonnelly]

After an increase in deaths and e-bike use the Dutch are trialling a 12mph limit for cyclists.

 

[classic33]

They also also places limiting the tyre size on bikes. Above a certain size and it's immediately classed as illegal.
12mph in a park should be fast enough for any cyclist.

It seems the users of speed pedelecs are causing similar problems in a country where they are legal as they do here.

Interesting piece near the end of the article.
“Marcel Aries, of the Doctors for Safe Cycling group, said behaviour and the environment needed to change. Safer cycling requires a package of measures, including a minimum age of 16 for e-bike riders, e-bike registration and licensing, better infrastructure and greater use of cycle helmets,”

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

I've always found un-assisted cycle for transport cyclists in Nl tend to cycle fairly slowly. I have experienced horrendously bad road craft by older e-bike cyclists (in NL); nearly badly "taken out" by one on one occasion (so anecdotal). I used to know a couple who organised group rides for their local club and they commented on the problems with older e-bike riders.

But if any speed limit in passed into law, I wonder how they would address the aspect of "how do I know my speed?". Requiring a cycle computer means user calibration or GPS. My experience of GPS speed is it's not great (hence I sought out and purchased a wheel sensor to link to my Garmin GPS (I'm sure that across an entire trip they average out fine but short term they can be "variable"). I'm sure clever people can sort out something and their solution would be interesting.

 

[Andy in Germany]

After an increase in deaths and e-bike use the Dutch are trialling a 12mph limit for cyclists.

Will they be limiting cars to the same speed?

There is an argument for limiting Ebikes to 12mph. I'm not sure if it's a very good argument given that they also have a category of Ebike which can be ridden up to 27mph, but it can be made, given that ebikes have speedometers.

You could also argue that speed limits on cycle paths and shared use paths may be needed, at least in urban areas, although anyone wanting to ride faster will then just use the road, this will annoy motorists.

 

[Andy in Germany]

They also also places limiting the tyre size on bikes. Above a certain size and it's immediately classed as illegal.
12mph in a park should be fast enough for any cyclist.

It seems the users of speed pedelecs are causing similar problems in a country where they are legal as they do here.

Interesting piece near the end of the article.
“Marcel Aries, of the Doctors for Safe Cycling group, said behaviour and the environment needed to change. Safer cycling requires a package of measures, including a minimum age of 16 for e-bike riders, e-bike registration and licensing, better infrastructure and greater use of cycle helmets,”

The issue, as mentioned above, is possibly because of the faster ebike category, which can be a problem here as well. You do need a licence for the faster version, but as we all know, having a licence doesn't solve everything.

The bit at the end sounds like a doctor in a lobbying group for car/helmet companies. I can see the under 16 limit, given that the faster category is already limited this way, but those bikes are also registered.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The bit at the end sounds like a doctor in a lobbying group

Indeed who cannot see the unintended consequences. The opposite of what is intended.

 

[classic33]

Will they be limiting cars to the same speed?

There is an argument for limiting Ebikes to 12mph. I'm not sure if it's a very good argument given that they also have a category of Ebike which can be ridden up to 27mph, but it can be made, given that ebikes have speedometers.

I think it's the speed pedelecs and their riders, that have caused the problem that they're now trying to sort out.
Talk of e-bike registration and licensing in what many seem to regard as the model to build to, for cycling, shows they're suffering from the same issues as many places. Maybe they'll introduce/re-classify speed pedelecs as mopeds. Which might be the easier route to take.

Not certain how helmets, or Hi-Vis, could reduce the speed though.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

certain how helmets, or Hi-Vis, could reduce the speed though.

More likely to increase it.

 

[Drago]

If it's a reduction in road death they seek then setting a rigidly enforced 12mph car limit would reap huge rewards.

 

[classic33]

If it's a reduction in road death they seek then setting a rigidly enforced 12mph car limit would reap huge rewards.

Seems it's about reducing the speed on cycle specific infrastructure. Which if correct doesn't sound as though it's actually that safe.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I think it's the speed pedelecs and their riders, that have caused the problem that they're now trying to sort out.
Talk of e-bike registration and licensing in what many seem to regard as the model to build to, for cycling, shows they're suffering from the same issues as many places. Maybe they'll introduce/re-classify speed pedelecs as mopeds. Which might be the easier route to take.

Not certain how helmets, or Hi-Vis, could reduce the speed though.

As far as I know the Netherlands has two classifications, roughly the same as Germany:

Pedelec: max 25km/h (15mph): officially a "bicycle" with some extra rules, but no licence, insurance or registration. includes workbikes which can carry children, rickshaws, et c.
E-Bike: max 45km/h (27mph): officially a "Mofa" or small scooter (Mofas are also limited to 45km/h): requires a "mofa" licence, which you can get from 16yrs, requires insurance and registration.

This is the German system, but the Dutch one is the same bar a few details as far as I know.

Limiting some places like parks and shared use paths to Pedelecs to 15 or 25 km/h and excluding the faster category of E-Bikes from these places could make sense, but then, we allow cars to drive in shared space areas where they are limited to 7km/h despite being capable of going faster, so there is certainly a counter argument.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Seems it's about reducing the speed on cycle specific infrastructure. Which if correct doesn't sound as though it's actually that safe.

On urban cycle specific or shared space infrastructure that would perhaps make sense. Legislating the same on rural cycleways, even shared space cycleways wouldn't because it's unenforceable, and enforcing it would result in people riding on the roads instead, which as @Ming the Merciless points out, would have the exact opposite to the intended result.

 

[classic33]

On urban cycle specific or shared space infrastructure that would perhaps make sense. Legislating the same on rural cycleways, even shared space cycleways wouldn't because it's unenforceable, and enforcing it would result in people riding on the roads instead, which as @Ming the Merciless points out, would have the exact opposite to the intended result.

If the speed pedelecs are registered and licenced, then average speed cameras could be used for enforcement.

To be honest, given that tyre size* is also being used, in the same country, as a means of limiting the riders behaviour, it shows the problem that we have in the UK with electric bikes, that are speed pedelecs on the European mainland are not just in the UK. And if it continues to be a problem, then I can see many countries having a look at how they classify them.
Hopefully before anything trickles down to the lower class of e-assist bikes and ordinary cyclists.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Will they be limiting cars to the same speed?

There is an argument for limiting Ebikes to 12mph. I'm not sure if it's a very good argument given that they also have a category of Ebike which can be ridden up to 27mph, but it can be made, given that ebikes have speedometers.

You could also argue that speed limits on cycle paths and shared use paths may be needed, at least in urban areas, although anyone wanting to ride faster will then just use the road, this will annoy motorists.

Didn't cycle NL last year but from previous years around town and cities a lot of the cycle paths in practice are shared use at least at times you get a fair number of joggers using them.

I wonder if the 12 mph will also be applied to mopeds and scooters on the cycle paths. On a large %age of the cycle paths mopeds/scooters were also allowed. Apparently rules were gradually being introduced to get them off the cycle paths but it was then a slow process. Be a bit daft if cycles & e-bikes on cycle paths were restricted to 12 mph whilst fuel burning mopeds/scooters were not subject to such limits.

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

I imagine there are far bigger issues to fix in NL than spending millions on enforcing a 12mph speed limit, years after legal standard ebikes have been limited to 15.5mph!