18 gears in the bb
- Thread starter betty swollocks
- Start date
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steve52
I'm back! Yippeee
- Location
- bottesford scunthorpe
i saw an smal suposedly infinite gearbof that could be made to fit there, seems the wayto go
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
Here you go: my translation from an article in a German bike mag:
The key data about the P1 gear system from Pinion (www.pinion.eu) sound promising: the compact gear system weighing around 2.5kg offers 18 gears with a complete range of 634% thus leaving the Rohloff hub and derailleur systems behind. The degree of change from gear to gear is exactly the same with each shift. The system is mounted on the frame by means of screws.
A pre-production prototype of the P1 has meanwhile managed a crossing of the himalayas with over 26,000 metres of climbing without any problems. It’s operated using a grip shift which controls two normal gear wires. It is intended to make the shifting more precise before it goes into production. It is also worth mentioning that in contrast to the Rohloff hub, the P1 uses no “planet” gears and so there are no particularly noisy gears.
When asked if it was intended to produce a 9 gear version with a range of around 300% for e.g. downhill Pinion replied that they wanted to get the current version into production first. A 9 gear variant would be mechanically simpler and the possibility of making one is not being excluded.
The key data about the P1 gear system from Pinion (www.pinion.eu) sound promising: the compact gear system weighing around 2.5kg offers 18 gears with a complete range of 634% thus leaving the Rohloff hub and derailleur systems behind. The degree of change from gear to gear is exactly the same with each shift. The system is mounted on the frame by means of screws.
A pre-production prototype of the P1 has meanwhile managed a crossing of the himalayas with over 26,000 metres of climbing without any problems. It’s operated using a grip shift which controls two normal gear wires. It is intended to make the shifting more precise before it goes into production. It is also worth mentioning that in contrast to the Rohloff hub, the P1 uses no “planet” gears and so there are no particularly noisy gears.
When asked if it was intended to produce a 9 gear version with a range of around 300% for e.g. downhill Pinion replied that they wanted to get the current version into production first. A 9 gear variant would be mechanically simpler and the possibility of making one is not being excluded.
Just back from Eurobike where it was on display. I didn't get to ride it myself but someone in the industry whose opinion I value highly (a manufacturer with huge hub gear experience) did and he is extremely excited by it - the words 'Rohloff killer' were even used (although the need for a special frame puts it in a slightly different category I guess). Shifting was apparently excellent and the company behind it are serious (not 'hobbyists').
Would be interesting to see how this device is priced - will it compete against Rohloff? I suppose one big advantage is that you can hold a spare rear wheel without huge capital outlay, also you can have a standard Q/R skewer (I believe Rohloff do a Q/R version of their hub, but I don't know how 'quick' it is...).
As to needing a special frame, well maybe the Thorns of this world will get cracking???!
Of course Rohloff's big selling points are endurance and reliability. Whether this one will match that, only time will tell.
As to needing a special frame, well maybe the Thorns of this world will get cracking???!
Of course Rohloff's big selling points are endurance and reliability. Whether this one will match that, only time will tell.
Davidc
Guru
- Location
- Somerset UK
Why has it taken over 100 years to get here? It looks like a very good idea.
Don't like the look of the crank fixing though, they need to improve on that. The chances are that being German it will be crazily expensive, ordinary mortals will have to wait until there's a version from Singapore.
Don't like the look of the crank fixing though, they need to improve on that. The chances are that being German it will be crazily expensive, ordinary mortals will have to wait until there's a version from Singapore.
Andy in Sig
Vice President in Exile
- Location
- Sigmaringen, Germany
The other side of the coin is that German engineering tends to be incredibly good. Just consider how reliable Rohloff hubs have proved themselves to be. These sort of things tend to be worth saving for and they also show that there is an alternative to the disposable mentality.
Hover Fly
He, him, his
- Location
- Besides the lake, beneath the trees
It hasn't, Sunbeam had a bicycle fitted with a BB gearbox, and they were made by Sturmey Archer for a while. It's better to have the gear box at the other end of the chain though, for less torque and hence lighter components.
simon_adams_uk
Guru
- Location
- SW London
Original patent info here (no shortage of detail!)
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2010072397&IA=EP2009009193&DISPLAY=DOCS
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images1/PATENTSCOPE/99/dd/9a/01dd9a.pdf
S
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2010072397&IA=EP2009009193&DISPLAY=DOCS
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images1/PATENTSCOPE/99/dd/9a/01dd9a.pdf
S
OP
OP
betty swollocks
large member
Andy: thanks for the translation! 
Davidc
Guru
- Location
- Somerset UK
Avoiding a discussion of whether German engineering is good or just over-engineered, Rohloff are very well built and very expensive. Shimano hub gears are also well built and are less expensive, and if bb gearboxes become popular I'm sure Shimano will make them, cheaper. The difference is that the Shimano ones will last the life of the bike, not the life of the owner.
Interesting, I didn't know about the Sunbeam.
The big advantage I can see for the bb position is in its being less vulnerable to damage, with the possibility of a simpler arrangement on the bit that has to come off sometimes - the wheel.
I've had derailleur gears on all my bikes (apart from one single speed) since I was 16, but have viewed them as a crude way to do the job, and I'd welcome more options for wide range enclosed gears for general use on bikes. I suspect that the derailleur system will always be lighter though, hence the competitive cyclist's choice.
Also much reduced unsprung weight for rear suspension bikes - a bit of a selling point for off-roaders especially. And good to have the weight near the bike centre for handling. The website also mentions the extended ground clearance, as only a smallish chainring is needed.
No. Translation error. That looks like a press release text.
Original German from the website is
"In jedem Fahrzustand ist ein Gang eingelegt. Auch während des Schaltens. Leertreten gibt es nicht. Versprochen und patentiert."
In every riding situation, a gear is engaged. Even while shifting. There is no 'empty pedalling'. Guaranteed and patented.
'Leertreten' is literally 'empty pedalling' - what it means is that there is no 'neutral' state in between gears i.e. no possibility of the pedals 'slipping' without resistance as some hub gears can do especially if the cable is poorly adjusted. In other words positive drive is maintained at all times. This is a safety feature (they've also mistranslated safety as security).
You almost certainly do need a singlespeed freewheel on the hub anyway. From the patent drawings I don't think it's designed for fixie use even if you were mad enough to try - the gear shift innards only secure the gears from rotation in one direction when engaged as far as I can tell.
Original German from the website is
"In jedem Fahrzustand ist ein Gang eingelegt. Auch während des Schaltens. Leertreten gibt es nicht. Versprochen und patentiert."
In every riding situation, a gear is engaged. Even while shifting. There is no 'empty pedalling'. Guaranteed and patented.
'Leertreten' is literally 'empty pedalling' - what it means is that there is no 'neutral' state in between gears i.e. no possibility of the pedals 'slipping' without resistance as some hub gears can do especially if the cable is poorly adjusted. In other words positive drive is maintained at all times. This is a safety feature (they've also mistranslated safety as security).
You almost certainly do need a singlespeed freewheel on the hub anyway. From the patent drawings I don't think it's designed for fixie use even if you were mad enough to try - the gear shift innards only secure the gears from rotation in one direction when engaged as far as I can tell.
