...a frame waiting for a build...

[avecReynolds531]

With recent threads mentioning having frames in waiting, Accles and Pollock tubing and light steel frames, here's another piece of British frame building history.
I worked in London and wanted to respect (and look after something of) the great frame building heritage of that city.

I've had this for several years now but haven't yet made a start. The frame number stamped on the bottom bracket and fork steerer match, there are decent clearances and mudguard eyes.

One or two of these photos have been previously posted in different threads. V-CC advice dated it to the mid - late 1950s, and most likely a Bill Gray built frame for Bob Wakefield's shop in Merton/ Tooting: https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/classic_builders/gray-bill/

Apart from the first pic above, all the others are from the previous owner (27 inch wheels fitted for scale).

Some thoughts and questions:
1. I haven't seen that kind of downtube gear lever braze very often (Campagnolo?).
2. The frame feels (much!) lighter than a previous 531...but the seat post is less than 27.2mm.
3. A curved rear brake bridge is a thing of beauty.
4. Pencil stays are a thing a beauty.
5. Nervex Professional lugs filed to that level are a thing of beauty.
6. How to build this up? What would've been the period equipment for this frame?

All CC knowledge shared, advice, help and comments are appreciated.
Thanks, Tom.

 

[Cycleops]

Very nice, can’t help I’m afraid. That’s a very long wheelbase so a touring bike?

 

[Illaveago]

It looks to be 50's to 60' to me so probably Campagnolo Gran Sport rear derailleur and GB bars, brakes and levers. It could also have been fitted with a Cyclo Benelux set up .

 

[raleighnut]

If you take a 'band on' shift lever apart you'll see the part similar to what is brazed on your frame as part of the band.

 

[Illaveago]

I didn't see it before that it was built for a double clanger.

 

[Fab Foodie]

A thing of beauty!
GB stem and bars?
Mafac racer brakes?
Not familiar with mid 50s campag running gear.
Quite a bit of high end hubs and rims were French, though names escape me right now.
Are there any adverts for other bikes of similar vintage to see what they were kitted out with?
Nice project :-)

 

[Illaveago]

Maillard hubs .

 

[Pumpman]

It looks to be 50's to 60' to me so probably Campagnolo Gran Sport rear derailleur and GB bars, brakes and levers. It could also have been fitted with a Cyclo Benelux set up .

I think the thread of the gear hanger of the rear drop-out would be different for Campag and Benelux. I think this looks like a Campag drop-out, as I don't think Benelux ones had the tappings for the little wheel centring screws (but I'm not sure about that).

 

[avecReynolds531]

Thanks very much for the replies & advice - much appreciated. This is planned to be a retirement project, when funds, time & hopefully my own know-how will allow it.

The frame braze on for the gears was described as Campagnolo: it does looks like part of the Gran Sport lever, as in this photo: http://hilarystone.com/images/sale images/Campag gear shifters/CGS1E.jpg

How rare was it to have the downtube braze on like that & why would a frame builder include part of the gear lever onto the frame?
Would it have been common practice to have it painted over?
I vaguely remember a thread (maybe last year?) here at CC - a bike having this same braze on and painted over too - I can't find it as yet.

It's all learning and fascinating history too.

 

[raleighnut]

Thanks very much for the replies & advice - much appreciated. This is planned to be a retirement project, when funds, time & hopefully my own know-how will allow it.

The frame braze on for the gears was described as Campagnolo: it does looks like part of the Gran Sport lever, as in this photo: http://hilarystone.com/images/sale images/Campag gear shifters/CGS1E.jpg

How rare was it to have the downtube braze on like that & why would a frame builder include part of the gear lever onto the frame?
Would it have been common practice to have it painted over?
I vaguely remember a thread (maybe last year?) here at CC - a bike having this same braze on and painted over too - I can't find it as yet.

It's all learning and fascinating history too.

Yep it'd go on friction washer- lever-friction washer- Cap and adjuster bolt. You may need to remove the paint from the centre pivot bolt so the lever is free to rotate, depends on how thick the paint is and whether the lever moves freely before you tighten the bolt

 

[avecReynolds531]

Yep it'd go on friction washer- lever-friction washer- Cap and adjuster bolt. You may need to remove the paint from the centre pivot bolt so the lever is free to rotate, depends on how thick the paint is and whether the lever moves freely before you tighten the bolt

Thanks raleighnut, appreciated.

 

[Illaveago]

Thanks very much for the replies & advice - much appreciated. This is planned to be a retirement project, when funds, time & hopefully my own know-how will allow it.

The frame braze on for the gears was described as Campagnolo: it does looks like part of the Gran Sport lever, as in this photo: http://hilarystone.com/images/sale images/Campag gear shifters/CGS1E.jpg

How rare was it to have the downtube braze on like that & why would a frame builder include part of the gear lever onto the frame?
Would it have been common practice to have it painted over?
I vaguely remember a thread (maybe last year?) here at CC - a bike having this same braze on and painted over too - I can't find it as yet.

It's all learning and fascinating history too.

It does seem a bit strange . They are usually just a stud protruding to attach the gear levers to .

 

[Gunk]

That would be nice built up to a similar spec as my CB, it’s a similar era, so Weinmann 999 centre pulls, Campagnolo Gran sport, chrome steel Williams chainset and a nice patinated Brooks B17 saddle.

 

[carpenter]

I love that frame - please consider gold lug lining

 

[avecReynolds531]

It does seem a bit strange . They are usually just a stud protruding to attach the gear levers to .

Yes, I've not seen many bikes with that braze on: another Wakefield, a Locomotief and a Peugeot so far.
As far as I've been able to find out at the moment, it seems it's either a Simplex braze on, or the back plate of an earlier Campagnolo Gran Sport lever.