A little more whine

[AlBaker]

I've whined about the wheel bearings being too tight and not having enough grease, on two identical Electra bikes four years apart.
I've whined about the lousy chain on the second Electra, having to put a new chain on after 300 miles.
Now I'm going to whine about another issue on the second Electra.

I like to put a smear of grease on BB shell threads, and wondered if this had been done on the new Electra. So I removed the cranks and BB and examined the threads on both sides. No grease. On trying to remove the lock ring on the non-drive side, I had to use a large adjustable wrench and a lot of muscle power. It was tight as a drum almost all the way out, until the last couple of threads. Examining the lock ring thread I saw what appeared to be one crossed thread in the center.

The grease monkey at the factory probably had a stick about a 1/4" wide with a small blob of grease on it which went mostly inside the shell beyond the thread. Same both sides. He must be the same bloke who begrudges putting grease in the wheel bearings. So the threads were bare naked. Perhaps with the occasional moisture from the rain, the threads might have seized, which is why I like to see that they're greased.

So, I wiped some White Lightning crystal grease around the threads. I wondered about screwing the lock ring back in, but it went in surprisingly easy, by hand much of the way. Then tightened it for the finished job. I am now satisfied with the bike. The only thing I haven't checked is the headset, but it feels pretty good.

Okay, whine over, until the next one.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

The grease monkey at the factory probably had a stick about a 1/4" wide with a small blob of grease on it which went mostly inside the shell beyond the thread. Same both sides. He must be the same bloke who begrudges putting grease in the wheel bearings

In fairness, we don't know what their boss told them to do, how much time they get for each task, how tired they are for working long hours to get peanuts.
It's good you have the mechanical know how to check your bikes.

 

[silva]

I doubt those "fair" scenario's - that lock ring tells the whole story on its own - it took a long wrench to screw out, a thread was found stripped, and it was again screwed in... by hand.

If a mechanic notices a nut is unexpectedly hard to turn, he'd stop to find out why, and correct/realign, instead of using brute force to "overcome" the problem, which takes MORE time, and MORE effort.

It all points to some1 interested in job nor customer.
Getting paid and that's it.

Imagine the bike hadn't been checked, it would likely have ended up with a lost frame due to inability to remove the BB without destroying all thread.

Btw the lockring is said to have a crossed thread in the middle.
How to explain that?
Different thread specifics causing alignment to deviate more and more?
A drop of thread locker as red loctite in the middle?

 

[88robb]

That's a totally valid whine. Skipping grease on critical threads is just poor workmanship. Good on you for catching it and doing the job right yourself.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Yes, but the main issue is are the two bikes talking about you when you lock them away at night? Are they both excited for the impending rides ahead?

Have you also considered whether the original bike actually removed the grease in the hope they would be the only one let loose on the open road, lording it over the other one singing "where's your grease gone, little baby Don?" You have to consider these things 😉

 

[AlBaker]

That's a totally valid whine. Skipping grease on critical threads is just poor workmanship. Good on you for catching it and doing the job right yourself.

I don't know if aluminum corrodes more quickly than steel, but any amount of corrosion is not good. It was because of the wheel bearings problems on both bikes that I was suspicious about the threads. I suppose as the bikes come down the assembly line, each worker has to act quickly. It does take more time to run grease around the thread than to just stick a small blob inside and hope the lock ring and BB thread spread it around.

I have a step-through Izip bike, two years old, now, which I rode through a flooded road, about ten inches deep. (I sometimes like to put on swim trunks and go riding in the rain). A couple of weeks later I put the bike up on a work stand, and noticed water dripping out of the BB shell. I removed the BB and water poured out. I never thought of the flood penetrating the BB shell. I had previously greased the shell threads but the frame was still holding a lot of water.

 

[AlBaker]

Yes, but the main issue is are the two bikes talking about you when you lock them away at night? Are they both excited for the impending rides ahead?

Have you also considered whether the original bike actually removed the grease in the hope they would be the only one let loose on the open road, lording it over the other one singing "where's your grease gone, little baby Don?" You have to consider these things 😉

Dang! I never thought that bikes could be so insidious. That's something I'm gonna have to watch out for, now.

 

[AlBaker]

If a mechanic notices a nut is unexpectedly hard to turn, he'd stop to find out why, and correct/realign, instead of using brute force to "overcome" the problem, which takes MORE time, and MORE effort.

I bought a new Specialized Fatboy from a bike shop some time ago. Not long after I bought it I got some of that silvery-grey yucky stuff that you put on bolts to prevent them seizing up in an aluminum body. In removing the bolts, one of them was very tight and it was tight all the way out. Odd that only one bolt was so tight, but it wasn't tight when I screwed it back in. I guess I found the new thread that the 'mechanic' had cut by forcing the bolt in all the way. When I screw bolts in, I start with a very light touch to make sure they're not cross-threaded, but not all bike shop mechanics seem to do that.

 

[88robb]

I don't know if aluminum corrodes more quickly than steel, but any amount of corrosion is not good. It was because of the wheel bearings problems on both bikes that I was suspicious about the threads. I suppose as the bikes come down the assembly line, each worker has to act quickly. It does take more time to run grease around the thread than to just stick a small blob inside and hope the lock ring and BB thread spread it around.

I have a step-through Izip bike, two years old, now, which I rode through a flooded road, about ten inches deep. (I sometimes like to put on swim trunks and go riding in the rain). A couple of weeks later I put the bike up on a work stand, and noticed water dripping out of the BB shell. I removed the BB and water poured out. I never thought of the flood penetrating the BB shell. I had previously greased the shell threads but the frame was still holding a lot of water.

You're right to be suspicious. The flood forced water past the bearings and seals, which is bad for any bottom bracket. Grease on the threads is good to prevent seizing, but it can't stop water from getting inside the cartridge itself. Once water gets in, it starts corroding the bearings from the inside out. Always try to dry out the frame thoroughly after a deep water ride.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I. Examining the lock ring thread I saw what appeared to be one crossed thread in the center.

I'm trying hard to imagine a scenario where there is one cross-thread in the centre of a thread stack. Either the entire stack is cross-threaded up to the hilt, the cross-threaded bit is at the tip only or, there is no cross-thread.

Also, grease is not a sealant nor is it waterproof. Go drill a 6mm hole in the centre of your BB shell, at the lowest point, so that water entering the saddle junction can exit below.

 

[AlBaker]

I'm trying hard to imagine a scenario where there is one cross-thread in the centre of a thread stack. Either the entire stack is cross-threaded up to the hilt, the cross-threaded bit is at the tip only or, there is no cross-thread.

Also, grease is not a sealant nor is it waterproof. Go drill a 6mm hole in the centre of your BB shell, at the lowest point, so that water entering the saddle junction can exit below.

One crossed thread was all I saw. It's a mystery to me, too.

The grease I used on the BB shell threads is waterproof. It's White Lightning Crystal grease. 100% waterproof, and specially formulated for bikes.

If I just drilled a hole in the shell, that would not prevent moisture from corroding the threads. Water can enter from the outside.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

One crossed thread was all I saw. It's a mystery to me, too.

The grease I used on the BB shell threads is waterproof. It's White Lightning Crystal grease. 100% waterproof, and specially formulated for bikes.

If I just drilled a hole in the shell, that would not prevent moisture from corroding the threads. Water can enter from the outside.

1) Impossible. A crossed thread can only start at the start of the thread, not at the end. You saw something else.
2) No it is not. No matter what the label says or what "formula" they use, it is not.
3) A dry BB is a long-living BB, but hey, do it your way.

Go for a ride and drink a beer.

 

[silva]

It was said "what appeared to be one crossed thread in the center.".
Thread "crossed" due to tensioning, and "damaged" due to whatever, is hard to judge on 1 thread so this is about semantics.

Somehow only 1 thread got damaged, positioned "in the middle".
Somehow. As mentioned, a drop red loctite (no grease at all) on that thread could have ripped off material when starting to turn the tool, with the ripped off material then being mauled during further turning, thus requiring more force.
And also explaining why easy to turn back in: the ripped off and mauled material gone.

It's not a scenario out of thin air - I had it with the rear cog bolts of the brake disc mount of my fixed gear.
Found no grease, and bolts were of length 8 mm instead of the 12 mm in the specifications.
Dealer likely tried to compensate by putting a red loctite on their ends, or, with some prick inside the holes on that depth inside the 6 holes.
In order to reach the specified depth with longer bolts, I had to tap them out, the tap went expectedly easy the first 8 mm, then it felt like the expected thread cutting/repairing.
Later on, also no grease was found in the bottom bracket, and actually nowhere on the bike. Alike he thought alu and stainless steel eliminated need of grease.
Or, didn't bother, or, not wanting dirty hands, whatever.

Dealer turned out to be more of a salesman than a schooled mechanic.
Not stupid and not totally nothingknowing mechanics, but not schooled alike a mechanic: missing some basics / insight.
Years later, he acquired an employee, which proved to be a schooled mechanic - no problems surfacing after repairs/replacements anymore.

There is a rather humorous anecdote of lack of mechanical insight: after a broken rim, to replace, I got the wheel back with the rear cog and 5 mm spacer ( to correct the chainline), in swapped positions - the spacer sat on the OUTSIDE instead of inbetween flange and cog, proving that he had not any idea about what the spacer flange served for (to correct the chainline), and used it like some roundel under the bolt heads, despite no need to spread pressure - it's 3 mm thick steel and holes to bolt size.
Of course, one can only do his best, but pretending resulting in botched jobs and subsequent misery, is not forgivable.
Early this year he ceased his bicycle business, and the schooled mechanic continued the shop (same name) on another location.

A grease named "White Lightning Crystal" makes me think of KMC's "Rust Buster Technology", which turned out to be... ordinary overzincing.
So not even zinc electro-plating "technology", but actually spraying on or bathed in, and it also looked like that.

After 50 km the zinc was totally "pressed" off the rollers (read: rust).
The "Rust Buster Technology" had 1 plus: the chain ran so silent that it was like not there. But "50 km Noise Buster Technology" probably wouldn't sell well, at best just to musea of old bikes, or the occasional Retro Look dealer that showcases a century old bike in front of his shop.

... more whining.

 

[gbb]

The 'cross threading' is also likely to be because by poor production processes...not cleaning out debris before assembly. A tiny bit of swarf can get picked up by the threads, mash up and cause an awful lot of thread damage.
Wheel bearings,,,new wheels or bike, I would always spin and feel everything was OK. I brought a budget set of new wheels once and thought they felt awful. Stripped the hub, hardly any grease at all. Serviced them...they ran perfectly for years. Disappointing yes...but thats modern manufacting in Chine, wherever...