Advice on changes in employment conditions please

[beanzontoast]

Need some help here from the legal eagles or advice from anyone with similar experience please.

Mrs B has been in floods of tears this last hour. She works for the home shopping department of a well-known supermarket. Today she was told the department in their store is closing in a just over a month's time. The company has offered her 1/3 the hours she currently does (in a different department and on different days to the ones she currently works) in the same store, or a move to a store 25 miles away doing the same job role with hours slightly less than she has now. As she starts work at 6.00am, she would be getting up at 4.30am to get to that other store, which I don't see as reasonable.

Is this something they can get away with? Seems really shabby to me and has come as a great shock to us both after she's been there for a decade.

 

[vernon]

When I worked in retail it wasn't unknown for staff to be moved between branches with a week's notice. I circulated between Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield and to be honest I liked it but there again I was young and free and single at the time.

I'd try to see the positive side. A ninety day statutory notice of redundancy and all that entails is a less palatable alternative and the company clearly values your wife's contribution enough to offer her alternative employment.

Addendum:

Is your wife a member of a trade union?

USDAW would be a good place to start. There's an advice section on their website.

 

[Over The Hill]

Need some help here from the legal eagles or advice from anyone with similar experience please.

Mrs B has been in floods of tears this last hour. She works for the home shopping department of a well-known supermarket. Today she was told the department in their store is closing in a just over a month's time. The company has offered her 1/3 the hours she currently does (in a different department and on different days to the ones she currently works) in the same store, or a move to a store 25 miles away doing the same job role with hours slightly less than she has now. As she starts work at 6.00am, she would be getting up at 4.30am to get to that other store, which I don't see as reasonable.

Is this something they can get away with? Seems really shabby to me and has come as a great shock to us both after she's been there for a decade.

She has the job in the first place because the firm is looking to the future and changing to meet the market. Can you really be upset that it is just doing what it does to keep the firm (and employment) viable?
Most certainly the contract has provision for changing workplace although I certainly sympathise as we do tend to take jobs on the basis of the location and hours. Mrs OTH has had a similar relocation in the NHS after 21 years in the same location. Reason - they could not find anyone to do the job in the new location so found it easier to move an existing person!
Tough but the alternative is to expect to have the exact job for life which we all cannot expect nowadays. Better to be offered an alternative than nothing (which is what I got last year!)

 

[beanzontoast]

Thanks both. You may be right in the broader philosophy of the current jobs market: my perspective is a little distorted maybe where nearest and dearest are concerned. What has made it all the more galling is that this has come out of the blue, first day back - what a great present to your returning workforce!

If the pay was better it might make it worthwhile travelling a round trip of 50 miles a day, but supermarket pay is not that sensational. The majority of people seem to live close to the store where they are employed in order to keep travelling costs down and make their pay go further.

Vernon - she is in a union, and I hope they get stuck in and negotiate better terms than seem to have been offered initially.

 

[vernon]

Once again look on the positive side. Would you rather have had Christmas ruined by your wife getting notification of the changes before 25th Dec?

 

[ttcycle]

Hi beans, union may be of help, however, twice i have been sold down the river by officials.is there a shop steward based where she works, the voluntary guys can sometimes but not always be better. Worth you wife digging out her contract as there may be a clause within in it saying that there may be variances in location etc. However, if she had a legal contract for a set number of hours, they legally need to honour that and if there are changes made employees must be consulted. An important aspect to note is that if these changes are being pushed ahead, she and other employees who are not happy with it need to write a letter stating that they are not in agreement with the terms and conditions or otherwise if your wife does these new hours etc without saying I am not in agreement, it will be considered a deemed contract where as the person has not expressed a disagreement is assumed to have accepted the new terms. Obviously, if several members of staff are affected then it's in everyones best interests to get as many if not all staff involved for some collective bargaining.

On a phone replying at the mo but PM me if you need to.
Good luck!

 

[accountantpete]

The DirectGov site gives some basic advice here.

Might be worth a trip to the CAB and a chat with one of their advisors if there is no Union back-up.

 

[ttcycle]

accountantpete - CAB are varied bunch- can be some really good advisors but often a lot of not so good advisors.#

The other option is ACAS but if there is a recognised union, first port of call is to try and get people working together in the workplace and then to take it to the recognised union but there's no guarantee they'll take it.

 

[Brains]

I'd take the job 25 miles away for now and start looking for new job right away.

My personal experience with kicking up a fuss with Unions, labour 'rights', fairness is that it all comes to nowt and your card is marked as a troublemaker

In the meantime see if the supermarket is prepared to make a contribution to the aditional travel cost (always worth a punt, the worst that can say is no)

 

[PBancroft]

accountantpete - CAB are varied bunch- can be some really good advisors but often a lot of not so good advisors.#

This is true, but as with many things in life, if you don't ask you don't find out. It's worth a pop in.

The other option is ACAS but if there is a recognised union, first port of call is to try and get people working together in the workplace and then to take it to the recognised union but there's no guarantee they'll take it.

The union may only cover you if you were a member beforehand, however again its worth asking. Also, talk to the local store manager, say that she likes working at that particular store, see if there could be an alternative position there in the future. Could she live with a potentially temporary move, even if its a different role?

 

[ttcycle]

if the union is worth anything it will jump at having new members on board (even if only for their membership fees if I am being entirely cynical), the only reason they wouldn't cover you, is that you would need 6 months membership to recieve legal representation ie official solicitors for an actual tribunal or court case. At this stage it would be a workplace grievance which is the time when people would want to join a union- unless the person/official is a complete waster and is turning people away.

Brains, Having had massive trouble at work and indifference from unions myself, I can see why you would say that but the problem is unless people start saying that 'X is not acceptable' is just allows managers/employers to walk all over people. If there was a legal contract that has been thrown out the window without any form of consultation then I think it's worth it. Worth fighting it if others in your workplace are with you - probably harder if you';re on your own with the issue. It is simply not ok for employers to look at the workforce and just assume they can slot in how they want them to. The job market out there is not too hot either and simply leaving allows the same shoddy crap conditions to be forced onto new people in the workplace and it gets worse for people to come unless someone says no.

 

[beanzontoast]

ttcycle - thanks for this. I'll speak to Mrs B and suggest she sees how others are feeling in this regard. May well pm you later when events unfold.

vernon - agree the classic 'giving you your notice the week before Christmas' would have been grim. Finding out your job is disappearing the week after Christmas isn't hugely better though.

 

[ttcycle]

No problem Beanz

Feel free to drop me a PM.

Tell Mrs Beanz to keep it all low key though as the thing with union/work stuff is these things can be more sucessful if she gets a feeler for everyone's opinions without sticking her head above the parapet (ie cannot be targeted) and secondly if others feel that they can't be isolated when saying no to the new terms and conditions. Also means she has to be careful not to speak to people who can't be trusted to blab stuff or spread things around.

 

[ufkacbln]

IN most cases where the employer has multiple sites there is a ecognition that workers may need to work at another site in case of sickness, absence or emergency cover.

For this reason most have a clause in the contract that innocently (and reasonably?) states that the employee may be required to work at othe premises

Unfortunately this clause can be used to enforce a permanent site change as well.

 

[richyx]

Need some help here from the legal eagles or advice from anyone with similar experience please.

Mrs B has been in floods of tears this last hour. She works for the home shopping department of a well-known supermarket. Today she was told the department in their store is closing in a just over a month's time. The company has offered her 1/3 the hours she currently does (in a different department and on different days to the ones she currently works) in the same store, or a move to a store 25 miles away doing the same job role with hours slightly less than she has now. As she starts work at 6.00am, she would be getting up at 4.30am to get to that other store, which I don't see as reasonable.

Is this something they can get away with? Seems really shabby to me and has come as a great shock to us both after she's been there for a decade.

Your wife may possibly claim that as her job no longer technically exists she has been made redundant and not accept the proposed changes.

As with most employment issues take it up with personnel under the grievance procedure that will probably eform part of her employment contract.

Further advice on possible Employment Tribunal if company will not pay redundancy required from Citizens Advice Bureau