All the gear - No Idea

[Norm]

...whereas many people who come to commuting later go out and get what they think is the best kit they can. Its not by any means universally true, but I think it explains why you see plenty of well kitted out numpties.

That'll be me then.

I haven't ridden much since my mid-20s, my kids wanted to start cycling and I got the bug and I can (hopefully, I spent 6 months out of work this year) afford to get some decent kit to go with the bikes.

Although I'd hope that a dozen years on a motorbike have taught me some relevant road craft, there's a lot of good information which I have picked up from these pages without which, I could well be that numpty.

Maybe, in truth, I am still that numpty anyway but I'd be even worse without it.

 

[gbb]

That's a bit unfair. The experienced hands on this forum are always preaching to beginners about wearing high-viz gear, having decent lights, not cycling on the pavement etc. A lot of these cyclists you see could just be newbies following good advice about what gear to use, learning their basic skills on the open road.

Problem is, there's no way to distinguish between a bad cyclist and a new learner out on the road. I do wonder why "L plates" are not encouraged in the cycling world.

Where you right in what you're saying, i'm not sure cab was talking about 'visibility' (feel free to put me right if i'm wrong cab) but rather about 'newbie' cyclists perhaps trying to appear like seasoned pro's.

Anyway, you always get a mix of attitude with cyclists. I see as many seasoned riders with what i'd consider poor lights and dark clothing and equally some with very good gear. The same applies to 'newbies' (i dont actually like that word...cant think what else you could call them right now)

Start off right, so if a rider feels 'seen and safe' wearing all the gear and lights...i'm not going to knock it.

 

[rh100]

That's a bit unfair. The experienced hands on this forum are always preaching to beginners about wearing high-viz gear, having decent lights, not cycling on the pavement etc. A lot of these cyclists you see could just be newbies following good advice about what gear to use, learning their basic skills on the open road.

Problem is, there's no way to distinguish between a bad cyclist and a new learner out on the road. I do wonder why "L plates" are not encouraged in the cycling world.

That's a bad idea IMO. Learner driver's have it for obvious reasons, but when they first pass and go on their own, they have to have a P plate. This a clear sign to other motorists that this driver can be intimidated, this happened to my GF when she passed, after the plate was removed her driving experience completely changed, instead being treated as part of the traffic.

L plates on a cyclist would be an open invite to derision and intimidation - and in that vulnerable position on a bike that's the last thing you need.

 

[rh100]

I don't really understand the problem the OP has with this rider (OK - the hand signals might be an issue) - but the 'all the gear' catchphrase is a bit condescending, newbie or old hand - whatever - he can do the whole lejog on his granny ring for all I care.

 

[BentMikey]

I am not so sure about the three points given by your tutor. Given that motorcycles and bicycles are not that easily seen I have always seen a signal as a last life saver and it isn't really that much of an effort. Also I think the effort of decision making as to whether you signal or not would be best placed in continuing to observe the traffic around you.

GrasB is right. Cycling instructor courses also teach not to signal if there's no-one to whom your signal would be useful.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Some lorry drivers are now being given an ammount of cycle training. It is not practicable for all cyclists to drive a lorry, but the reverse would give a perspective on the problems faced by drivers of large vehicles and how they can be overcome.

I agree completely.

I try to get experience of as many vehicles as I can. I've driven an articulated truck (2-hour trial lesson) and a bus (off-road), and both experiences benefited both my driving and my cycling.

 

[shunter]

I've passed both the IAM advanced driving test and advanced motorcycling test and there were no conflicts between the two. What are you imagining would be different?

As I said, it is probably more imagination than reality. Maybe I'll give the car one a go - might make me appreciate car driving more

Just out of curiosity - did you start as a motorcyclist and then become a car driver?

 

[shunter]

GrasB is right. Cycling instructor courses also teach not to signal if there's no-one to whom your signal would be useful.

Strangely enough - given my over indulgence in signaling in cars or on motorcycles - I tend to be more economical with hand signals on a bicycle. I rarely signal left turns and only right turns when a car is near. I would signal left turns on a roundabout though just to let other car drivers know they can pull out.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Just out of curiosity - did you start as a motorcyclist and then become a car driver?

Started as a cyclist, at age 4 :-) Had a moped for a year when I was 16, but had been driving for years before I took up motorcycling.

I don't motorcycle any more. Was knocked off twice (the second time whilst stationary), had two friends killed, another two friends seriously injured (one with permanent injuries) and an acquaintance brain-damaged beyond repair. I've done a lot of adrenaline sports over the years, from rock-climbing to parachuting, but none with the toll I've seen from motorcycling.

 

[yenrod]

I'm trying to think if, and when i actually use hand signals on the bike.
Exiting a r/a...even then i dont 'signal'...rather point with my hand my intended exit to waiting drivers.
Almost any other time...no, i dont signal, with the exception of occasions where there was a car waiting perhaps who can go once i've signalled.

Did the lack of hand signal delay anyone ?
If it was dark, could a driver have seen it that well anyway ?

I dont wish to sound unsympathetic....but if i signalled every turn and r/a on my commute, i'd look like a crazed semaphor flag.
I use signals sparingly, and its always dictated by only close and waiting traffic.

 

[BentMikey]

I'm trying to think if, and when i actually use hand signals on the bike.
Exiting a r/a...even then i dont 'signal'...rather point with my hand my intended exit to waiting drivers.
Almost any other time...no, i dont signal, with the exception of occasions where there was a car waiting perhaps who can go once i've signalled.

Did the lack of hand signal delay anyone ?
If it was dark, could a driver have seen it that well anyway ?

I dont wish to sound unsympathetic....but if i signalled every turn and r/a on my commute, i'd look like a crazed semaphor flag.
I use signals sparingly, and its always dictated by only close and waiting traffic.

What about pedestrians?

 

[yenrod]

What about pedestrians?

Well I'm not gonna hurt myself riding into a ped.

 

[PpPete]

Thank you BM
Wondering if anybody was going to make that point.

Just for the record... I was a pedestrian on the occasion related in the OP, and I was very definitely interested in the cyclist's intentions. I was just about to cross the side road he turned into. If I'd been 3 seconds earlier I'd have set off across that side road, having checked that no one on main road was indicating to turn, and we would have been close to cyclist/ped collision.

And whilst his turn did not cause any motons to slow down or take avoiding action, I feel sure SOME of them (and there were several approaching the intersection) might have felt happier knowing his intentions.

It only needs one impatient driver speeding up to overtake in such circumstances for the cyclist to spread across the landscape.

My view, FWIT is that all other road users, & that includes peds, have a right to know in advance before we turn. Personally I don't think cyclists should fall in to the bad habits of motons and refrain from signalling just because there is "nothing coming"

 

[BentMikey]

I think he should have signalled in your case as you were a road user who would have found it useful to know his intentions, but there are plenty of cases where cyclists shouldn't signal, or should signal very late (see left hook example above).

Did he look behind him before turning?

 

[gbb]

What about pedestrians?

Good point...although the reasons to indicate to them are less likely simply because a bike and a car co-exist on the road, a ped doesnt.
That said, if circumstances dictated a signal of my intentions to a ped helped him to make his way without effecting me, i would do him the honour.