All the gear - No Idea

[GrasB]

I am not so sure about the three points given by your tutor. Given that motorcycles and bicycles are not that easily seen I have always seen a signal as a last life saver and it isn't really that much of an effort. Also I think the effort of decision making as to whether you signal or not would be best placed in continuing to observe the traffic around you.

The reason I have never considered advanced car training is that I have already done advanced motorcycling training. I always reckoned that the advice given for car training would to some degree conflict with that given for motorcycle training and I prefer the motorcycle approach.

At the risk of being controversial I think motorcycle training is more appropriate for cycling - but just my feelings on the matter.

I say this as a RoSPA silver standard driver, who narrowly missed out on being a gold standard driver ; Road Craft isn't perfect & yes I often have debate with the tutors about aspects of the driving style Road Craft leans towards. My biggest concern is that the assumption is your observation skills mean you will see everything, which imo just isn't the case. It also assumes that everyone else is driving to the same standard as you, which is also incorrect.

Ah, you did it too!!! Do you try to apply the IAM rules to the bike too? One of the things I really hate is people who are still signalling right at a R/A when they are actually turning into the exit!

It's not IAM rules, like RoSPA IAM also practice Road Craft. I do try & apply Road Craft as much as possible on the bike. I'd like to do RoSPA advanced motorcycling as well but that means I'd have to get a motorbike & all the gear again.

 

[Plax]

I only signal if it is safe to do so and if I think it is appropriate.
I have one right hand turn for example that I find looking continuously over my shoulder a hundered yards or so before my turn stops people overtaking and allows me to briefly hand signal my intentions and then gradually move over to turn right.
I rarely signal left unless I feel it would benefit any traffic behind me. I find road positioning and looking over the shoulder suits me best. At roundabouts I'll take the appropriate lane and hand signal just before my turn briefly, as I think hands are best on the bars at roundabouts.

 

[CopperBrompton]

It also assumes that everyone else is driving to the same standard as you, which is also incorrect.

Eh? That couldn't be further from the truth! Half of the point of Roadcraft, maybe more than half, is how to avoid getting caught up in other people's accidents.

 

[GrasB]

Eh? That couldn't be further from the truth! Half of the point of Roadcraft, maybe more than half, is how to avoid getting caught up in other people's accidents.

If you look at the base line driving methodologies in it & analyse them you actually realise that they do assume that people most of the time are driving to the standards set out by Road Craft. Yes there's a lot about accident avoidance & that does work but the driving techniques used can conflict with the way most people drive. My tutor agrees with me on this point.

 

[BentMikey]

Of course...but a pedestrian who puts himself on the road is aware he is not the primary user, therefore puts himself last on the list, so's to speak.
Good job an'all...it'd be bedlam if peds considered they had equal rights on a busy road

My sarcasmometer isn't working this morning, so I *really* hope you're joking!!!

 

[Norm]

A motorbike indicator switch looks like this (where it says "off" with two arrows to left and right):

Yup, that's what the indicators on all of my motorbikes look like. Luckily, you chose just about the only BMW which has standard indicator switchgear there.

Your original post was...

I would love to see a motor-bike type indicator for bicycles - it would have the motorbike-style push-on-click-off switch on the handlebar...

I didn't realise that you were focussing on the switchgear, I thought it was the flashy-flashy bits which would have been the primary concern.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Originally Posted by Ben Lovejoy
Eh? That couldn't be further from the truth! Half of the point of Roadcraft, maybe more than half, is how to avoid getting caught up in other people's accidents.

If you look at the base line driving methodologies in it & analyse them you actually realise that they do assume that people most of the time are driving to the standards set out by Road Craft. Yes there's a lot about accident avoidance & that does work but the driving techniques used can conflict with the way most people drive.

What do you think conflicts? (Aside from the fact that the very act of overtaking someone can upset the increasing number of drivers who appear to think overtaking is illegal ...)

I can't say I've ever found that, and I can definitely say that advanced training has helped me stay out of other people's accidents, including one quite dramatic one on the M4.

I was approaching the Heathrow Spur from the M25 (ie. M4 eastbound), and as usual there was a long queue to exit the sliproad even in the early morning. I came to a halt at the back of the queue and, as per Roadcraft, left myself a bit of room in front and kept an eye on my rear-view mirror.

A half-asleep idiot then came barrelling up behind. I flashed my brake-lights at him (ie. pumped the brakes on and off) to try to catch his attention but he still wasn't slowing much, so I put the car into 1st and pulled onto the hard shoulder just in time for him to go crashing into the back of the car that had been ahead of me.

 

[goo_mason]

One of the problems is that if you're signalling on a bike, you've got one hand a long way from the brake lever, and you're only steering with one hand. This is why I rarely signal on a busy roundabout, for instance. I find it much better to make it obvious where I'm going by controlling the traffic behind me by taking the middle of the lane.

Snap. Even worse if it's wet and there's a slippery road / reduced braking to contend with.

Even worse for me is just as I get home I have to turn right into the Close where I live. Road is always heavingly busy, and is cobbled. Not only that, but due to heavy traffic use over the past two years it has developed little hillocks and valleys/troughs, so negotiating it with two hands on the bars is bad enough. Chuck in some rain or damp, and it's a terrifying roller-coaster ride. I rarely signal there unless I'm at a stop behind a queue of traffic just before my turn-off. I do try and make my intentions clear though with road positioning, lots of very obvious looking behind me etc.

 

[CopperBrompton]

I find a foot signal can be helpful in some circumstances.

On my local ride to the station, I turn left at the bottom of a steep hill and need both hands on the brakes. I take a strong secondary position to create a gap in which to slow, and then use my left foot to indicate.

 

[gbb]

My sarcasmometer isn't working this morning, so I *really* hope you're joking!!!

Yes, i made a generalisation there that isnt correct. He deserves the same respect a car or other road users get.


I did state if a ped would benefit from knowing my intentions, i will and do signal to him. Inevitably, this is rare, hence my omission of peds in the equation.

 

[BentMikey]

A half-asleep idiot then came barrelling up behind. I flashed my brake-lights at him (ie. pumped the brakes on and off) to try to catch his attention but he still wasn't slowing much, so I put the car into 1st and pulled onto the hard shoulder just in time for him to go crashing into the back of the car that had been ahead of me.

Quality alertness, well done! I remember doing something similar once in the midst of a tropical thunderstorm in Harare. Stopping at a newly turned red light, the car behind didn't want to, so I modulated my braking some of the way into the intersection on my motorcycle. The driver was extremely sheepish!

 

[gbb]

Somethings just occured to me !!...all the gear, no idea ? its perfect...the more the better.
It means i can easily pass such riders clad in my modest attire thus achieving status beyond ...errr my status