Anyone see that thing on TV 'bout Sweedish Traffic rules?

[Bigtallfatbloke]

I forget the name of the programme but it showed how in Sweeden they have taken down all the traffic signs, road lines, traffic lights etc in some towns and jus thave a general free for all...no rules...just common sense approach. Apparently it is a lot safer. I was just wondering how that would work over here in our greed driven, regimented blame culture society?

 

[Globalti]

Well, for a start it would be opposed by all the MPs who hold directorships in companies who make road paint and paraphernalia.

That's the only explanation I can offer for all the red, white, green, yellow and blue paint that's spread over our roads.

 

[Arch]

I've been chatting via email recently to someone who lives in the Netherlands, and he says that have similar spaces and it's much worse for cyclists and pedestrians than normal. Bearing in mind of course, that facilities for cyclists there are normally excellent - segregated paths and so on, but ones that actually go places (like, everywhere you'd ever want to go!), and are respected and have priority at junctions and so on. So while a system like this might work well for a bit, when it's new and everyone is being very careful, after while it just reverts to the biggest bullying the rest.

Over here, I wouldn't give it a chance, I'm afraid...

 

[walker]

lets give it a go in Milton Keynes

 

[Arch]

In Denmark, they have that thing where traffic turning right at a junction(our left so to speak) can go on a red light, if it's clear, but must wait for any pedestrians crossing or other traffic. Also, they must let cyclist pass up the inside before turning right (our left). A bit unnerving in Copenhagen, to start with, as a pedestrian, but the rules were rigidly stuck to, and I can't see that anything could make things better (at least in the centre of the city, where I was) - they already seem to have not only a fair system, but PEOPLE WHO OBEY IT! Which is the key difference I think...

 

[Dr Smut]

some principles of 'shared space' are creeping in here too, so I guess this becomes an empirical question!
http://www.hamilton-baillie.co.uk/index.htm

 

[marinyork]

One of the items on Newsnight last night was taking out traffic lights. Perhaps that was what programme people were thinking of?

 

[John the Monkey]

I can't see it working here because the vast majority of drivers are so convinced of the primacy of motorised traffic over all else.

 

[Dave5N]

Better set all the lights to red.

 

[Dave5N]

Actually, I don't really think that. I need me car and I hate congestion.

 

[User169]

some principles of 'shared space' are creeping in here too, so I guess this becomes an empirical question!
http://www.hamilton-baillie.co.uk/index.htm

Rather sadly, Hans Monderman, who came up with a lot of the shared space ideas, died last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Monderman

 

[Rhythm Thief]

It does work to an extent in this country. They showed on Newsnight last night (and I've experienced this myself in the real world) what happens when the traffic lights are not working in this country. Everyone becomes courteous and the traffic keeps flowing through application of common sense, believe it or not.

 

[Smokin Joe]

It does work to an extent in this country. They showed on Newsnight last night (and I've experienced this myself in the real world) what happens when the traffic lights are not working in this country. Everyone becomes courteous and the traffic keeps flowing through application of common sense, believe it or not.

Only for a short time, though. Once the lights have been out for any lenght of time and people get used to it at that particular junction, bullying anarchy becomes the norm.

A nations laws and customs have to be geared to the character of it's population, and whereas the Swedish system appears to work well for the Swedes it would not work in this much more aggressive country.

 

[Bigtallfatbloke]

My first thought was that drivers would abuse the system.

Then I thought Our system is designed so that we have somebody to blame and sue in case of an accident. Remove the rules and you would likely be unable to prove fault in an accident, which means no payouts, which mean expensive repair bills ..so if the drivers know that a smash is going to seriously cripple them financially they might just take things easier??...then I thought I was right the first time...

...I would pay good money though to see this system in place on the M25 on a Friday night! Better than the Bangers at Wimbledon dog track i reckon!

 

[Arch]

...I would pay good money though to see this system in place on the M25 on a Friday night! Better than the Bangers at Wimbledon dog track i reckon!

But on the M25 , you don't need it. You already have a system where people have to negociate into and out of traffic flow to overtake etc - some do it better than others. Even if you removed all the lane markers, I think people would tend to go slower on the left, over take on the right (assuming they follow that rule anyway) - shared space wouldn't remove all the laws of the road like keep left, it just removes the definitions of when you may go and so on...

Sadly, I don't think it would work for long here. I was interested to here from my friend that in the Netherlands, it's actually been a step backwards, because their normal behaviour and provision is so good.