Are cameras always useful?

[Chutzpah]

Having watched plenty of cycling videos on YouTube, something has been bothering me.

Do you think that helmet cameras sometimes make the wearers more aggressive? Yes, there are some shocking clips online, but there as also some pretty innocuous situations where someone makes a small error, little (if any) avoiding action has to be taken and (in my opinion) everyone should just get on with it.

But in many situations you'll hear aggressive language being uttered by the cyclist, for a situation which happens to be "just one of those things".

I'm sure they'll be plenty on here that don't agree. And yes, there's some poor drivers out there. But if something happens, and it's a genuine error, and it wasn't really dangerous... does it require "giving it some aggression" and posting it online?

I can't help but think that in some of these situations if the cyclist wasn't wearing a camera they would have just got on with it. But as they know they have a recording device strapped to their head they yell away.

Anyone else here sometimes do something on the bike that is a genuine error, but doesn't really massively inconvenience or endanger anyone? Don't you expect the world to just get on with it?

I also think that there's some poor cycling posted up. Maybe some of you think that I'm too timid, but I would never put myself in this situation - undertaking on the left extremely close to the kerb, you know the traffic could move at any moment if the lights change. And then you go and sit up the inside of a car and moan when they turn across you. In situations like that I'm just happy to hang back in the primary position and wait for the traffic to start moving again.

 

[Norm]

I certainly see some videos from people who react considerably more than I would do in similar situations. Whether that is down to the camera or whether some always "over-react", I don't know.

That video does appear to be pretty poor. They ride up the inside of traffic, possibly on the pavement at one point (from 10 secs in for 5 secs) and then stopping beside the car. The driver isn't faultless but that's mainly because we have a responsibility to look out for others who may be acting like bananas.

 

[Keith Oates]

This topic has been raised on the forum many times in various guises and there
has not been a conclusive answer as far as I can see.
Some riders claim that having the camera on the helmet is noticed by drivers
and they are more careful when overtaking, which is a plus, some have used them
to give evidence to police or truck/bus company head office and that is also
probably a plus. However many, if not most, are just showing fairly normal everyday
occurrences that are not worth posting or getting worked up about.

I agree with Norm when he says “I certainly see some videos from people who react
considerably more than I would do in similar situations.Whether that is down to the camera
or whether some always "over-react", I don't know.”

Seeing some of the clips and hearing the ‘comments’, I can
only say that Road Rage is not confined to car
drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iamanidiot]

While we're (sort of) on the subject of 'critiquing' youtube videos....

I posted a comment on this video by Mr Gaz545 - I believe he is a relatively frequent poster on here. My comment is this one:

"There's no cycle lane on the left, so unless that car's just overtaken you I see nothing wrong in that car's driving bar the late signal. If you are approaching that car, you have no cause to put yourself anywhere near the left side. If you're not overtaking it you should be behind it leaving a braking gap. Obviously I don't know exactly what the situation is so i'm calling it as I see it. Tell me i'm wrong if i'm wrong."

And it would be interesting/informative to have a response as if my analysis is correct then i'm not sure what the point of the clip is, unless to berate for a late signal (which i'm sure we've all done while driving).

 

[marmalade400]

And it would be interesting/informative to have a response as if my analysis is correct then i'm not sure what the point of the clip is, unless to berate for a late signal (which i'm sure we've all done while driving).

See Highway Code rule 158.

The driver indicated at exactly the same time as starting the turn, which is as about as good as not indicating at all, the driver turned too fast and too late, the driver did not check his mirrors for traffic coming up on his left.

It seems the point of the clip is to demonstrate an instance of poor and dangerous driving so that cyclists who view the clip can learn from it and probably also partly to 'name and shame' the driver who obviously doesn't take the responsibility of being in charge of a heavy, fast moving vehicle very seriously.

 

[2Loose]

"There's no cycle lane on the left, so unless that car's just overtaken you I see nothing wrong in that car's driving bar the late signal.

Exactly, but that in itself could have been serious. The late signal and turn without checking his off side nearly caused an accident. I was taught as a motorcyclist to check my inside before turning left to avoid accidents and also to 'close the hole' on the left of the lane before turning to ensure that nothing could travel up my inside and get caught like this.

As to the camera thing, I think some people do post non-malicious driving errors that have annoyed\frightened\endangered them and I am sure their camera's do catch some bad language from time to time. I know I often swear when a driver makes an ill judged manoeuvre, whether it was really dangerous to me or only badly judged, but then I don't have a camera to pick up my colourful language

The do seem useful in that they allow riders to review what happened and hopefully guard against it in future...also as a bit of an insurance policy just in case something really really bad happens.

 

[asterix]

I tend to find helmet cam clips very boring as there's an awful lot of poor or sloppy driving out there on the road, like late signals, no signals etc. I don't need to see it on a helmet cam clip. One of the arts of driving and cycling is to assess the neighbouring vehicle and guess what it is likely to do whether it signals or not!

That said, I think helmet cams are a good idea but I'd only review the clip on my own if I'd had a truly serious incident (or wanted to see a part of my ride that was particularly enjoyable).

 

[darth vadar]

I have never cycled the way that some cyclists do when you look at some clips on this forum.

Just because you are on a bike doesn't give you the right to cycle at 30+ miles per hour when the traffic conditions dictate otherwise.

Maybe if cyclists slowed down a bit then some of these 'road rage incidents' could be avoided.

Attitudes like this play right into the hands of motorists who think that all cyclists should be shot.

If my daily cycling commute was anything like this then I don't think I would bother.

 

[2Loose]

I have never cycled the way that some cyclists do when you look at some clips on this forum.

Just because you are on a bike doesn't give you the right to cycle at 30+ miles per hour when the traffic conditions dictate otherwise.

Maybe if cyclists slowed down a bit then some of these 'road rage incidents' could be avoided.

Attitudes like this play right into the hands of motorists who think that all cyclists should be shot.

If my daily cycling commute was anything like this then I don't think I would bother.

Well I never, that's the first time that I have heard that car drivers may get miffed because of the cyclist going to FAST on the road.
Believing that they are being held up by a cyclist, certainly, but flowing with the traffic or speeding, that is a first.

 

[summerdays]

Well I don't wear a camera but I will mutter under my breath or in other instances shout at car drivers - its a way of releasing emotions. I realise that everyone isn't perfect and makes mistakes - however when you make a mistake .. apoligise immediately, that mouthed apology or nice hand gesture can quickly defuse a situation and the reverse is also true where if they start getting belligerent defending their actions.

One case of that was when a driver of a mini bus that reversed at my son and myself who told me that course she wasn't wrong/close she is a "professional driver" does the opposite. I didn't realise how much that one had affected me until the next time we came across the van in exactly the same place, again reversing onto a main road, I didn't want to pass it and yet they seemed to be waiting for us (we were on the main road with 2 lorries behind us) to pass and I didn't want to due to the past experience. Took a really wide route around the mini bus only to find it was a different driver hence why they were taking more care.

As for whether cyclists change their behaviour because they are wearing the camera ... it may do ... possibly to the good for some ... there is not much point taking a video to the police showing somebody hit you if it also shows that you wound him up first.

 

[DrSquirrel]

Having watched plenty of cycling videos on YouTube, something has been bothering me.

Do you think that helmet cameras sometimes make the wearers more aggressive? Yes, there are some shocking clips online, but there as also some pretty innocuous situations where someone makes a small error, little (if any) avoiding action has to be taken and (in my opinion) everyone should just get on with it.

But in many situations you'll hear aggressive language being uttered by the cyclist, for a situation which happens to be "just one of those things".

I'm sure they'll be plenty on here that don't agree. And yes, there's some poor drivers out there. But if something happens, and it's a genuine error, and it wasn't really dangerous... does it require "giving it some aggression" and posting it online?

I can't help but think that in some of these situations if the cyclist wasn't wearing a camera they would have just got on with it. But as they know they have a recording device strapped to their head they yell away.

Anyone else here sometimes do something on the bike that is a genuine error, but doesn't really massively inconvenience or endanger anyone? Don't you expect the world to just get on with it?

I also think that there's some poor cycling posted up. Maybe some of you think that I'm too timid, but I would never put myself in this situation - undertaking on the left extremely close to the kerb, you know the traffic could move at any moment if the lights change. And then you go and sit up the inside of a car and moan when they turn across you. In situations like that I'm just happy to hang back in the primary position and wait for the traffic to start moving again.

I totally forget that I have the camera on my head - it has no basis for my actions.

I don't need a camera on my head to confront someone that has done something dangerously.

Your oppinion on how dangerous something was is different from the person there.

We shouldn't "just get on with it", otherwise no one will care because no one will say anything - and "genuine mistakes" have allowed drivers who weren't concentrating stay out of jail when killing cyclists, pedestrians and other motorists. I put genuine in "" as this is what the laywer would suggest nearly always. I don't see anything wrong with asking someone to justify their actions, specially when they start to spout ignorant twaddle

Just because someone wears a camera doesn't mean it represents what we all think/do - the video clip and user you show are new to me and indeed that is stupid, they should have stayed behind the car in front at least (there was enough gap). I will duely comment and critise like I do with any others that I come across - no matter whom it is (and we as camera wearers can also benefit from our cycling being scrutinised).

"Agreesive" language can just be due to shock or surprise...

Posting online <> aggression.

Shouting can be used to show someone you are there (like a horn).

While we're (sort of) on the subject of 'critiquing' youtube videos....

I posted a comment on this video by Mr Gaz545 - I believe he is a relatively frequent poster on here. My comment is this one:

"There's no cycle lane on the left, so unless that car's just overtaken you I see nothing wrong in that car's driving bar the late signal. If you are approaching that car, you have no cause to put yourself anywhere near the left side. If you're not overtaking it you should be behind it leaving a braking gap. Obviously I don't know exactly what the situation is so i'm calling it as I see it. Tell me i'm wrong if i'm wrong."

And it would be interesting/informative to have a response as if my analysis is correct then i'm not sure what the point of the clip is, unless to berate for a late signal (which i'm sure we've all done while driving).

No, we dont all do it. Some of us don't just indicate last second and turn off suddenly down a street...

Driver in question is lucky that some less experienced/ignorant cyclist didn't decide to go up the inside - regardless of if cyclists should or not, when driving you SHOULD check your inside before turning. Thus you should be indicating BEFORE turning.

You do see what this driving manovure is? its "bugger this traffic... I will rush up this side street to beat it" mode.

 

[Rob3rt]

I dont even watch the video's from my camera back. I delete them at the end of each journey, lol

I personally think that having a camera has had very little effect on my riding. If anything its probly improved it a little, since if I make a stupid mistake which causes an accident then I'll have video'd myself being a moron!

Ofc I wouldnt delete it if there was in incident, but in general, I've got more pressing matters to attend to in an evening than looking for minor incidents which didnt effect me on a video.

 

[BSRU]

Something trivial to one person could be annoying/scary to someone else, especially the person involved in the incident.
For example a local car dealer used to park their cars across the drop kerb of a shared cycle/pedestrian path causing lots of annoyance to cyclists, pedestrians, parents with prams/buggies and electric wheel chair users, since the being directed to the video on YouTube they longer do it.

 

[Origamist]

While we're (sort of) on the subject of 'critiquing' youtube videos....

I posted a comment on this video by Mr Gaz545 - I believe he is a relatively frequent poster on here. My comment is this one:

"There's no cycle lane on the left, so unless that car's just overtaken you I see nothing wrong in that car's driving bar the late signal. If you are approaching that car, you have no cause to put yourself anywhere near the left side. If you're not overtaking it you should be behind it leaving a braking gap. Obviously I don't know exactly what the situation is so i'm calling it as I see it. Tell me i'm wrong if i'm wrong."

And it would be interesting/informative to have a response as if my analysis is correct then i'm not sure what the point of the clip is, unless to berate for a late signal (which i'm sure we've all done while driving).

It's a clear warning to cyclists not to go down the left of a vehicle on the approach to a junction - even when the car is not indicating, or indicates at the last second.

Not all vids are about naming and shaming - they have an educational dimension too.

 

[mgarl10024]

I certainly see some videos from people who react considerably more than I would do in similar situations. Whether that is down to the camera or whether some always "over-react", I don't know.

Spot on, Norm.

I've commented before that yelling at point "You're on camera" probably does nothing to raise the profile of the safe and courteous cyclist, but at the same time this doesn't mean that cameras shouldn't be used (unless they are negatively affecting the riding/attitude) as the footage would be invaluable to a police investigation, and often makes it much clearer for a forum reader when someone is trying to describe an incident.

I've also seen a mixture of video quality. Some which are clearly just done for the purpose of posting a clip; some which are showing real incidents of danger; and some like Gaz's "Silly Cyclists" range which are meant as educational (I have a lot of time for these latter ones).
I also enjoyed a lot of the clips on the "God he's fast" thread - particularly the ones which showed cyclists zipping safely around London and having fun. More of these needed I think!