Are top groupsets worth the extra

[Berlinbybike]

Self explanatory, I guess, but it seems XTR is more-or-less twice XT and similar for Super Record versus the lesser Campag groups. I read an article in some-or-other cycling glossy ages ago ( late 90s ?) which suggested, after reviewing Campag Chorus, that it was so good "why bother with Record?" Any comments / experience on this?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

A long time ago, when someone else was paying for it, or I could have it at trade prices, XTR was great.

Now I buy stuff with my own bunce I live lower down the tree.

 

[mickle]

I know an XTR rear mech which has been in everyday use since 1996, including a fair amount of off-road and near to no maintenance. I did a comparison three years ago and it had fewer bunnies (less 'play in the bushes') than a brand new - fresh out of the box XT mech. It's still going strong. The top of the range stuff tolerances are closer, materials are better, seals are tighter.

I've always bought the best gear, because I love the way it works and because it lasts longer.

And because I'm a label queen and a poser of course.

 

[accountantpete]

As a Campag guy I don't bother with Chorus or Record - I'd rather just get a bog standard groupset and the upgrade the bearing components with super duper ceramics which are far better than the in-house offerings. I have just put on some Tacx ceramic jockey wheels on a Mirage rear mech and it now runs as smooth as a Record (although it's a bit heavier and doesn't shift as sweetly) all for £20.

 

[MacB]

As a Campag guy I don't bother with Chorus or Record - I'd rather just get a bog standard groupset and the upgrade the bearing components with super duper ceramics which are far better than the in-house offerings. I have just put on some Tacx ceramic jockey wheels on a Mirage rear mech and it now runs as smooth as a Record (although it's a bit heavier and doesn't shift as sweetly) all for £20.

Hmm, makes me think of those 'pimp my ride' type shows, are there companies out there offering the same sort of thing for bikes?

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Hmm, makes me think of those 'pimp my ride' type shows, are there companies out there offering the same sort of thing for bikes?

If you haven't seen them kcnc makes some amazing looking superlight stuffs that make xtr look positively agricultural. But no idea if they are adequately robust.

 

[frank9755]

The two things I have learned are:

- The top-end stuff is designed for racing so works very well when new but is not particularly designed for long life as they tend to shave out all the excess metal to make it lighter. If you want longer-lasting kit, the mid-range stuff (eg LX, Tiagra) is fine.

- The bits that make the most difference to actual performance are the bearings, ie hubs and bottom bracket. They are worth spending money on. Things like STIs are just fancy switches, and a front mech is a front mech (in case any pedants are reading, I do of course mean between groupset designations, not specifications such as triple vs double, distance of throw, T-capacity, etc).

 

[mickle]

(One of the) two things I have learned are:

- The top-end stuff is designed for racing so works very well when new but is not particularly designed for long life as they tend to shave out all the excess metal to make it lighter. If you want longer-lasting kit, the mid-range stuff (eg LX, Tiagra) is fine.

I don't agree at all. Top level stuff is much more durable than cheaper kit. Better seals, better materials and processes (such as forging) and tighter tolerances. It might break 'sooner' for having less material but a rock which rips off a top of the range mech will also rip off a cheap one. They shave out material to save weight - which might make a component 'weaker' but not less durable.

 

[dodgy]

I think in the case of XT at least, enjoys many of the refinements of XTR at a cheaper price point. I don't think there are any significant differences that are worth paying for. XT for me is the optimum in terms of performance vs £.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I know an XTR rear mech which has been in everyday use since 1996, including a fair amount of off-road and near to no maintenance. I did a comparison three years ago and it had fewer bunnies (less 'play in the bushes') than a brand new - fresh out of the box XT mech. It's still going strong. The top of the range stuff tolerances are closer, materials are better, seals are tighter.

I've always bought the best gear, because I love the way it works and because it lasts longer.

And because I'm a label queen and a poser of course.

Every day? including Christmases? I salute you!

But seriously Mickle if your rear mech is 15 years old and good as new you just ain't hitting those rock fields fast enough....

Modern era XT is, ime, dross compared with mid- late- 90's XT let alone XTR. Oranges and Pears.

 

[yashicamat]

I'm fairly sure that the metals used in, for example, the XTR cassette are different than that used in the standard Deore cassette, with the latter being considerably harder wearing (that's durability as opposed to toughness, but I expect it wins out in the latter too). Don't get me wrong, the XTR is lighter and for those trying to shave the seconds off a XC race then that will matter, but for the majority of us mortals, I think most would rather choose something a bit harder wearing if there isn't a big penalty for it.

I think it could be fair to say that moving components, such as the rear mech etc., would be worth spending a bit more on though.

 

[dodgy]

Dura Ace cassette is a good example that goes against that, it costs more than double over the Ultegra cassette and wears quicker (part titanium cogs).

 

[02GF74]

I know an XTR rear mech which has been in everyday use since 1996, including a fair amount of off-road and near to no maintenance. I did a comparison three years ago and it had fewer bunnies (less 'play in the bushes') than a brand new - fresh out of the box XT mech. It's still going strong. The top of the range stuff tolerances are closer, materials are better, seals are tighter.

that is not a fair comaprison. The older Shimano stuff was far more robust, especially front mechs that nowadays become floppy in no time.

anyways, my opinion is that nobody buys XTR stuff, it is given by the sponsors.

XT is perfectly fine. If you want extra lightness and slightly better performance, then buy XTR but is comes at a price: more expensive and may not last as long - like the example given with Ti sprockets.

 

[Berlinbybike]

The reason for the question was that I'm rebuilding a bike, and of course the stuff I have is 8 speed XT - mostly in good nick but some bits (naturally those with no modern replacement) need replacing. I was less than impressed with a ~2004 XT groupset I saw on a friend's bike (the crankset looked cheap and nothing was well finished) and thus I'm more-or-less set on XTR, but having seen the price differential (I was advised by a local know-it-all that the extra money just buys you the "R") I put the question out there. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Sleeping Menace]

Personally I've found XTR good for race day, but to lose adjustment, and not last as long in day to day use as regular XT. At least that's how it always worked riding downhill. XTR looks pretty, and is lighter, but never had the same ability to soak up the miles, with minimal maintenance. in 10 years of racing DH.. I never had an XTR rear mech last a season.. but my last XT lasted 2+