Are top groupsets worth the extra

[GrasB]

IMO, the only people who can actually make justifiable use of "top" groupsets are pro racers, who do not actually buy them. If you have to buy them yourself, logically the answer is NO.

Sure if you pay full price but there are times you may want to. I got my Red group set for £15 more than I could grab a Force group set for...

 

[mickle]

I don't get some of you lot's aversion to high end kit.

One of the great things about cycling is that you can have the best kit in the world for relatively little money. When I built my mountain bike I bought each component individually - selected on the basis of it's weight. It took two years to build but I ended up with something which was unique and world class. Certainly at the time one of the very lightest mountainbikes in the country. Because my component choice wasn't restricted by sponsorship arrangements my bike ended up lighter and more blingy than those ridden by the factory team.

I was able to build that bike on retail wages. If I was 'in to' cars or motorbikes or hifi or art collecting there is no way I'd have been able to afford to build/assemble/make something which could hold its own against anything in the world.

There is no conspiracy, as has been hinted at, to exploit idiots with more money than sense. In my experience (and I worked in bike shops for 23 years so I have some) the more you spend the better the kit.

Though it's worth remembering Bonty's mantra: 'Light - Strong - Cheap. Choose two'.

If you are happy to use sub-standard crap, or entry level, or middle of the range, or one-step-down-from-top-of-the-range go ahead. No-one gives a sh!t Just don't justify your choices by pretending that it's because high end stuff is junk.

It isn't. And if you'd ever used it you'd know that.

 

[MacB]

If you are happy to use sub-standard crap, or entry level, or middle of the range, or one-step-down-from-top-of-the-range go ahead. No-one gives a sh!t Just don't justify your choices by pretending that it's because high end stuff is junk.

It isn't. And if you'd ever used it you'd know that.

Now I would take slight issue with this as you're omitting the other end of the equation, the rider. What an accomplished rider, and I'm not one, may gain from high end equipment isn't the same as a donkey. If you think there's no industry tactics behind selling high end to donkeys then you're being a little naive.

I don't have anything like your experience in cycling but I have a lot of experience with golf and golf equipment. Now maybe the 'all the gear and no idea' fool with pots of money is more prevalent in golf. But the difference in what a good golfer can get out of equipment compared to a hack is massive. Then the difference from a good golfer to a top amateur is huge, finally the step on to a professional is even bigger. I've seen so many people trying to 'buy game' and I could stuff any of them with a 40 year old set of beaten up clubs.

I get that cycling is a little different in that lighter is lighter and mechanical efficiency works across the board. But there is still a return ratio to input, Will can save 20 seconds on a climb via a wheelset, translate that to a weekend warrior and you get maybe a second if you're lucky. I have no problem with people buying bling but they shouldn't kid themselves that it's making any real difference other than a placebo effect.

 

[mickle]

There are many reasons to buy high end parts, speed is only one of them. A bottle of Tesco Value Whisky will get you pissed just as fast as a Laphroig..

 

[GrasB]

Now I would take slight issue with this as you're omitting the other end of the equation, the rider. What an accomplished rider, and I'm not one, may gain from high end equipment isn't the same as a donkey. If you think there's no industry tactics behind selling high end to donkeys then you're being a little naive.

I don't have anything like your experience in cycling but I have a lot of experience with golf and golf equipment. Now maybe the 'all the gear and no idea' fool with pots of money is more prevalent in golf. But the difference in what a good golfer can get out of equipment compared to a hack is massive. Then the difference from a good golfer to a top amateur is huge, finally the step on to a professional is even bigger. I've seen so many people trying to 'buy game' and I could stuff any of them with a 40 year old set of beaten up clubs.

I get that cycling is a little different in that lighter is lighter and mechanical efficiency works across the board. But there is still a return ratio to input, Will can save 20 seconds on a climb via a wheelset, translate that to a weekend warrior and you get maybe a second if you're lucky. I have no problem with people buying bling but they shouldn't kid themselves that it's making any real difference other than a placebo effect.

"What I now have to admit is that it's not the bike, it's me" - from an overweight & unfit guy who dropped several grand on a road bike... latest DA gear, top end power tap wheel... the sort of thing you see pros riding on. He got the bike because he knew he couldn't blame it... the only place to point the finger was himself.

 

[MacB]

"What I now have to admit is that it's not the bike, it's me" - from an overweight & unfit guy who dropped several grand on a road bike... latest DA gear, top end power tap wheel... the sort of thing you see pros riding on. He got the bike because he knew he couldn't blame it... the only place to point the finger was himself.

I could have told him that for a couple of hudred and saved him thousands, if he had any doubts left I could have beaten them out of him for a couple of hundred more I've heard the 'get the best kit so that you've only yourself to blame' argument plenty of times, it's just another self justification. If you want it, get it and don't apologise or create excuses/reasons.

People have a tendency not to admit when something they've spent a lot of dosh on isn't living up to expectations., but at least it keeps the 'nearly new' second hand market alive.

 

[snailracer]

I don't get some of you lot's aversion to high end kit.
...by pretending that it's because high end stuff is junk...

Who said it was junk? I think you came as close to calling it junk as anyone else.

 

[snailracer]

... I've heard the 'get the best kit so that you've only yourself to blame' argument plenty of times, it's just another self justification. If you want it, get it and don't apologise or create excuses/reasons...

Justifying stuff to oneself (if required) is one thing, justifying it in the eyes of others is different. In a free country, one can buy what one likes and other people are allowed to have opinions on it (flattering or otherwise).

 

[GrumpyGregry]

There are many reasons to buy high end parts, speed is only one of them. A bottle of Tesco Value Whisky will get you pissed just as fast as a Laphroig..

and indeed may well taste better.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I don't get some of you lot's aversion to high end kit.

edited for brevity

It isn't. And if you'd ever used it you'd know that.

I have used lots of XTR kit. Not bought at a discount.

Top of the range kit isn't junk. But neither is it worth, in my subjective opinion, the price premium it attracts unless your income depends on the marginal performance gains it offers.

A lot of high end chi-chi boutique kit is junk. I wish I'd saved my Pauls Components scrap box.....

 

[swee'pea99]

Indeed - I don't recall anyone questioning the quality - just the value, to most. It's true that pursuing 'the best' costs a lot less in cycling than in many other fields, but it can still be very expensive, and the benefit it offers to most people is very doubtful. My Shimano m520s do weigh a hundred or two grams more than these, eg, but would I really notice the difference? Personally I'd rather spend the change on beer. Cheers!

 

[snailracer]

There are many reasons to buy high end parts, speed is only one of them. A bottle of Tesco Value Whisky will get you pissed just as fast as a Laphroig..

No, you can avoid waiting in the queue at the cash machine if you choose the Tesco Value Whiskey.

 

[snailracer]

...Though it's worth remembering Bonty's mantra: 'Light - Strong - Cheap. Choose two'...

Weight weenie's mantra: 'Light - Strong - Cheap. Choose Light'...

 

[yello]

But neither is it worth, in my subjective opinion, the price premium it attracts unless your income depends on the marginal performace gains it offers.

I'd go along with that. I'd love to be able to afford the best, and I would buy the best if I could afford it, but it would be lost on me in truth... and that applies to pretty much everything I buy.

Equally, I'm happy with Veloce and can't justify the price of Record, much as I'd equip my bikes with it if I was loaded. Guess I'm just an 'own brand' type of guy!!

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Mickle's reference to Bonty's mantra reminded me of these:

Men: Handsome, High-Earner, Faithful – Pick two.
Women: Single, Sane, Sexy, Smart – Pick any three. (also called The four S's of dating)
Photographic lenses: Fast, Sharp, Cheap - Pick two.
Project: Schedule, Scope, Resources – Pick two.
College: Work, Sleep, Play – Pick two.


They are courtesy of Wikipedia btw, before anyone calling me a

!!


IMO Bonty's mantra is faulty - where are the components that are light and cheap?