Are we being forced to go electric?

[fossyant]

What sort of consumption are folk getting in their EV ? Something around 3-4 miles per KWh ?

What's it like in winter/summer stuck in a usual traffic congested commute - i.e. 10 miles which takes an HOUR to do in a car. For example, sat in traffic one of the ICE cars will cost me £2 in fuel to get to work (£4 return). So If I am paying the going rate of say 30p for a KWh those 10 miles may be about £1 in juice.

Be interesting to hear what KWh are consumed over a week of commuting. I do know, each day I cycle it's saving at least £4 of fuel (driving the city car) and £4 of parking fees, that adds up very fast - £40 per week minimum.

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Maybe they aren't much heavier than the monsters on the roads these days - I remember when the average family car was 1 tonne.
Will the EV's evolve to being made as light as possible in order to eke out the battery power?

Yes, that's already happening, cars designed for the use and environment that they are being used in, not for hypothetical or once per year trips like may base their car choices on. https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami is a great example of a minimal weight EV for city use.

We drive a Merc E Class Cabriolet and a Disco. Bought for different reasons , however I’m serious when I say the EQC we had on loan , whilst very nice and well equipped , I didn’t feel anymore special driving that than our own cars . In fact the big Disco has to be one of the comfiest vehicles to sit in !

I’ll be priced off the road at some point ! then , I’ll need to choose something else . For the moment I keep my chin up watching Bangers and Cash and Look for my next car on there !!

You've been spoiled by the Discovery. We had a number of them over about 16 years, last was a D4. Then they got too fat, too complex, too thirsty and too expensive. My Caravelle fills most of the functions of the Discovery for us, plus its easier to put bikes and other bulky stuff in, and gets about 5-8mpg better. The D4 was replaced by a Mini Clubman Cooper S which has plenty of "toys" and achieves 45mpg. When it gets replaced, I'm almost certain it'll be by an EV.

My old Nissan leaf 40kW could not do 100mph. I think it was 89mph. The new Leaf has a bit more maybe 98mph. VW Polo 1.2 couldn't do it either.

Infact many of the newer city EV will not exceed a 100mph.

Indeed it could be argued as for why there is a need to have 'everyday' cars that are capable of over 100mph. Indeed Volvo have introduced a 180kph (112mph) limit on their cars, citing safety as the main consideration. Considering that most UK drivers have never been trained to drive at speeds over 70mph, and the lack of observation, anticipation and control skills that many drivers regularly display. I would say that mandatory speed limiters would be a very good thing. When you add in the environmental arguments about the additional energy requirements as speed increases, the case gets even stronger.

And now that the much vaunted BritishVolt has gone to the wall, what next for the great Brexit infrastructure regarding EVs - ?

At the risk of being political, I think this has as much to do with the short-sightedness of current government and their lack of commitment to honouring anything that they've promised to do. The global car industry will survive without British Volt, but what remains of British car manufacturing, and the prospective purchasers of British built EVs, will suffer the consequences in higher costs and prices, if not worse...

 

[Fastpedaller]

A small bit in Complete Kit Car Mag November 2022 issue 198 says:-
Mini EV woes
Reader Ed Keane contacted us recently having run into trouble registering his Mini EV conversion. Any car that has its monocoque altered is deemed 'radically altered' and must undergo an IVA test and be registered on a Q plate. The only alteration to the structure of Ed's car is a hole drilled in the boot, which DVLA has said is enough for it to qualify as radically altered. This is certainly the strictest interpretation of the radically altered rule we've ever seen. Welding the hole has not been deemed satisfactory to return the cat to standard, even though that's not different to, say, repairing a rust hole. The mini's identity has been revoked, and Ed is faced with owning a car that is impossible to bring to IVA standards. Negotiations with the authorities are on-going, but we wanted to bring the case to the attention of readers.
--------------------------
I notice that doesn't mention the electric tests per se.
The difficulty is that DVLA may change the 'fuel type' as a paper exercise and the owner thinks it's ok. only to find they come back at a later date to wield their power. Not specifically electric cars, but if you do a search on Pistonheads (I know, I know ) regarding DVLA service it's very worrying that even having dispensed with the local DVLA offices, they aren't consistent with their rules - they are also never wrong (in their eyes)

 

[Fastpedaller]

I found this ... A little less expensive than I said earlier.
The DVSA will require a CEC 100.01 test of the electrical work. These tests cost ~£2000 and again require the car to be taken to a test center. Re-testing (you probably wont pass first time) will incur the initial test fee and of course transportation costs to and from the center.

The IVA issue is a bit of a grey area. Say you convert a Ford Fiesta using Tesla parts..... What is radically altered? If you use the Tesla hubs, motors etc how do these become attached to the suspension? That is surely in the realm of radically altered. Brakes? original, but do the batteries add more weight and could that be a problem? Weight distribution of the batteries could be critical to the handling of the car, radically altered again. It's now clear why IVA is required. When I had my kit car tested they noted the kerb weight presented at each wheel, tested the brakes and put all the info into their computer programme to see if it passed. If, for instance, the rear brakes are too efficient they can lock up before the fronts - in the wet the car could then become a spinning car quite easily.

 

[icowden]

What's it like in winter/summer stuck in a usual traffic congested commute - i.e. 10 miles which takes an HOUR to do in a car. For example, sat in traffic one of the ICE cars will cost me £2 in fuel to get to work (£4 return). So If I am paying the going rate of say 30p for a KWh those 10 miles may be about £1 in juice.

Actually, if you are stationary you don't use much energy at all. The energy needed to to run the lights, heating etc is quite small. I generally get 2.7 to 3 miles per kwh as I am mostly "city" driving. Today was 2 miles per kwh as it was -6 when I did the school run. Overnight on an EV tariff those KWH are 9p.

 

[jowwy]

What sort of consumption are folk getting in their EV ? Something around 3-4 miles per KWh ?

What's it like in winter/summer stuck in a usual traffic congested commute - i.e. 10 miles which takes an HOUR to do in a car. For example, sat in traffic one of the ICE cars will cost me £2 in fuel to get to work (£4 return). So If I am paying the going rate of say 30p for a KWh those 10 miles may be about £1 in juice.

Be interesting to hear what KWh are consumed over a week of commuting. I do know, each day I cycle it's saving at least £4 of fuel (driving the city car) and £4 of parking fees, that adds up very fast - £40 per week minimum.

its all according how that car was charged and the charge cost....octopus Go i think is 10p/kwh at 12am to 4am overnight, but if charging through the day on solar, if parked at home, it could be 0p/kwh.

 

[icowden]

Reader Ed Keane contacted us recently having run into trouble registering his Mini EV conversion

I don't quite understand why people are doing their own conversions on a car where a properly designed EV version is available. I get that he was converting a 1960s mini and actually the problem was really nothing to do with the conversion itself, just where he drilled a hole.

The problem is that EV design is far more than just putting a battery in. Without an engine you hear everything. Modern EVs have a lot of soundproofing otherwise you'd be constantly hearing creaking from the car's structure. The reason that Tesla and Polestar are far superior to many of the other EVs on the road is that they were designed as EVs from the ground up. Many other manufacturers - even those using the MEB - just stick a battery in an ICE car or use ICE features and logic on the MEB Chassis.

Get a Tesla Y for 45k and you get pretty much everything (except the FSD and premium alloys / coloured paint). get an Enyak for 45k and you need to pay another 10k for everything that the Tesla already has at 44k.

 

[FishFright]

I'm not particularly worried about the cost,I travel to Spain most years.
Sorry matey, I don't need range anxiety, I don't need the hassle of queing for a charger,or finding one that works.
I like to run my air con and associated gadgets as I drive.
I can lease a tesla for 450 a month,but I like to avoid stress,so I will stick to my petrol drive for the moment.

I quite like breathing clean air but hey you have a lifestyle to keep up.

 

[FishFright]

An interest watch about what's possible.



And watch it all before committing your yeah buts.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Got bored quick ;-) how much will it be ……. For your average punter that’s the question in all of this !

 

[CXRAndy]

What's it like in winter/summer stuck in a usual traffic congested commute - i.e. 10 miles which takes an HOUR to do in a car. For example, sat in traffic one of the ICE cars will cost me £2 in fuel to get to work (£4 return). So If I am paying the going rate of say 30p for a KWh those 10 miles may be about £1 in juice.

Slower you go in a EV the more efficient. My daughter borrowed our Nissan leaf, she drove across the city in gridlock speeds gained 16 miles of range for 8 mile journey.

Look at evdatabase website for accurate numbers on range. You will see the city driving is by far the greatest range available

 

[CXRAndy]

A small bit in Complete Kit Car Mag November 2022 issue 198 says:-
Mini EV woes
Reader Ed Keane contacted us recently having run into trouble registering his Mini EV conversion. Any car that has its monocoque altered is deemed 'radically altered' and must undergo an IVA test and be registered on a Q plate. The only alteration to the structure of Ed's car is a hole drilled in the boot, which DVLA has said is enough for it to qualify as radically altered. This is certainly the strictest interpretation of the radically altered rule we've ever seen. Welding the hole has not been deemed satisfactory to return the cat to standard, even though that's not different to, say, repairing a rust hole. The mini's identity has been revoked, and Ed is faced with owning a car that is impossible to bring to IVA standards. Negotiations with the authorities are on-going, but we wanted to bring the case to the attention of readers.
--------------------------
I notice that doesn't mention the electric tests per se.
The difficulty is that DVLA may change the 'fuel type' as a paper exercise and the owner thinks it's ok. only to find they come back at a later date to wield their power. Not specifically electric cars, but if you do a search on Pistonheads (I know, I know ) regarding DVLA service it's very worrying that even having dispensed with the local DVLA offices, they aren't consistent with their rules - they are also never wrong (in their eyes)

These regulations will have to be updated and changed to accommodate the EV revolution. More and more people will want to convert their cherished cars to electric

 

[youngoldbloke]

An interest watch about what's possible.



And watch it all before committing your yeah buts.

-yeah but - can I get a wheelchair in the back without folding it or taking its wheels off? Useless to us. Efficient but not functional.

 

[lazybloke]

Well you're lugging two engines around with you. You'll have more maintenance. You'll pay more costs upfront.
Do they really charge the battery as they go ? That would affect the MPG quite a bit surely ?

Nissan's "e-power" cars are interesting.

They are a pure EV with an onboard petrol-powered generator!
So they still have an ICE, but it has no output to the tranmission or wheels; it just keeps the battery topped up; so much so that the car never needs plugging in. In fact, there is no plug!


Seems weird but I can see what it achieves:

• Drives just like an EV (because it is an EV), so has instant power, regenerative braking, etc.
• No range anxiety (except in zero emission zones)
• The car should maintain optimum battery charge levels, avoiding cell degradation
• Car can still operate purely on battery to enter "zero emission" zones
• Engine is optimised for electricity generation (quiet, lower emissions than their traditional engines; should be light/small)
• Much simpler than a traditional hybrid
• Battery can be small, so is light/cheap

I can think of some disadvantages

• Pollition; EVs use electricity that 60% from fossils. This hybrid uses E10 which is 90% from fossils.
• Economy isn't especially impressive, 53 mpg

Seems a weird concept, but avoidance of chargers is a massive benefit for people who regularly drive long distances, or for those with no drive or lamp-post outside their residence.

The zero emission mode will have to be improved if it's to sell beyond 2030...

 

[FishFright]

-yeah but - can I get a wheelchair in the back without folding it or taking its wheels off? Useless to us. Efficient but not functional.

No because it's a saloon car. TBH I'm surprised you didn't notice that.