ASLs..... Worth the paint?

[Deleted member 1258]

In the days before we had ASL's if I filtered to the front of a line of traffic I would always stop in front of the front car in the line, I did this because I felt it was safer, in that position I was in the line of sight of the front driver and I felt it meant there was a better chance of him being aware I was there. The problem was that to do this I had to be in front of the stop line, technically an offence, when they started putting in the ASL's I could get in front and be legal. A lot of drivers didn't understand them then and I think a lot of drivers don't understand them now.

 

[Hawk]

I think they're very useful on roads that tend to get congested. Though where there's no ASL, I will find a space, any space, near the front ANYWAY.

I will not be as arrogant as to "skip the queue" when it's obvious any time I save will be outweighed by delay caused to following drivers. Everyone's journey is equally important. We all complain about "MGIF" from motorists, flying to the front and not saving much time whilst inconveniencing us. That said, this doesn't often happen in stop-start traffic as it doesn't really matter whether 20 or only 3 cars made it from the front of one queue to the back of the next.

One benefit of an ASL approach is that traffic tends to stay "in its lane", this sometimes means there is an acceptable gap through which to filter without needing to move between nearside/middle/offside constantly as traffic has stopped kind of sort of a little bit in its lane but not really.

Unfortunately ASLs seem to give inexperienced cyclists a false sense of security, the paint seems to make decisions for them. Newer cyclists seem to do dangerous things in ASLs that would be clearly MENTAL if the ASL wasn't there.

On that basis alone I think we should give up on the crappy ASLs we've all seen. Either put something good in that isn't encouraging cyclist risk taking or don't put anything in at all.

ASLs without approaches could be beneficial on congested routes to that effect?


My council seem to have taken the opposite line though

 

[HLaB]

I hope he doesn't mind me listing his article but I think Magnatom's ASL article is a good one. Like cycle lanes, they often encourage the cyclist to the left and this is at junctions its particularly hazardous, especially if a hgv is there. Although it shouldn't matter, with some imbeciles on the road it does ASL's encourage cyclists to go to the front and these imbeciles get frustrated with the cyclist skipping the queue/ holding them up (preventing them from join the back of the next queue a few seconds earlier) and frustrated drivers can pass too close etc.

 

[gaz]

I've not read what others have written but my views are as follows.

The ASL seems to be a half assed fix to a problem that we have. Non segregated facilities that end at traffic lights and leave cyclists in a vulnerable position. Do they have ASL's in the cities in the Netherlands? From what i've seen, no.

The biggest problem with them, is that many cyclists now treat them as a target and they must get to the ASL at all costs, even if it means riding on the pavement or squeezing through a gap they really shouldn't. Some will even filter to the front when there isn't even an ASL.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The ASL may not be the safest place to be. As you set off from the lights and there is an open road in front of you, the vehicle behind can see the road is open and may (even if you are holding a strong position) try and overtake when they really shouldn't. But if you sit behind one of the vehicles near the front, then you will still be visible to those around you and as you move away the vehicle behind can see that the vehicle in front is not that far ahead (hopefully) and won't try to overtake.

The ASL also looks a lot like the blind spot of a truck..

 

[BlackPanther]

I tend to hang back and try to time the lights turning to green. However, on the occasions that I do filter to the front, I find that these boxes enable me to pull right in front of the traffic.....much safer than setting off from the left hand side of the first vehicle in the queue. Imho, these boxes can't be anything but good news for cyclists who choose to use them?

 

[HLaB]

I tend to hang back and try to time the lights turning to green. However, on the occasions that I do filter to the front, I find that these boxes enable me to pull right in front of the traffic.....much safer than setting off from the left hand side of the first vehicle in the queue. Imho, these boxes can't be anything but good news for cyclists who choose to use them?

If they were respected perhaps but a cyclist who is inexperienced/ weaker/ mis times it, it can be very bad news for them.

 

[400bhp]

I've not read what others have written but my views are as follows.

The ASL seems to be a half assed fix to a problem that we have. Non segregated facilities that end at traffic lights and leave cyclists in a vulnerable position. Do they have ASL's in the cities in the Netherlands? From what i've seen, no.

The biggest problem with them, is that many cyclists now treat them as a target and they must get to the ASL at all costs, even if it means riding on the pavement or squeezing through a gap they really shouldn't. Some will even filter to the front when there isn't even an ASL.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The ASL may not be the safest place to be. As you set off from the lights and there is an open road in front of you, the vehicle behind can see the road is open and may (even if you are holding a strong position) try and overtake when they really shouldn't. But if you sit behind one of the vehicles near the front, then you will still be visible to those around you and as you move away the vehicle behind can see that the vehicle in front is not that far ahead (hopefully) and won't try to overtake.

The ASL also looks a lot like the blind spot of a truck..

Good post.

 

[BlackPanther]

Agreed. But they're ideal for for people like me (experienced/stronger/never mistime......)

I tend to use them when I'm heading through gridlock......if the traffic is free flowing, it's far safer to hang back.

 

[Alun]

View attachment 15742

WTF is that supposed to be?
Looks like it belongs here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/index.htm

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

Another view - Why shouldn't cyclists "jump the queue"?

The queue of cars is caused by people sitting in huge wasteful metal boxes blocking the transport infrastructure up.

Why should they force others travelling by a more versatile means of transport to be inconvenienced? And a cyclist passing through a junction rarely takes up the same time as a car - being in the ASL does not usually cause one other car to "miss their turn" or impact flow further along as it would if a car overtook a queue and took that place.

Fair's fair, cars can pass and travel faster on clear roads, bikes can pass and travel faster on congested roads.


For safety, sometimes being at the front is not the best idea but each junction is different and even at the same junction, each queue is different

 

[Alun]

For safety, sometimes being at the front is not the best idea but each junction is different and even at the same junction, each queue is different

Agreed, 2nd or 3rd place at a red light offers some protection against what used to be called "amber gamblers"

 

[summerdays]

Agreed, 2nd or 3rd place at a red light offers some protection against what used to be called "amber gamblers"

I'd be worried about the light sequence if 2nd or 3rd only offered some protection . Just because the light is green I still look to see that it is clear - too many cars going through blatantly on red particularly on certain junctions.

 

[boydj]

To my mind, the most useful aspect of ASLs is to remind drivers that cyclists are about and have a right to be on the road. In Glasgow the ASLs are reasonably well-respected and I can't remember when I last had any kind of issue from a motorist when I have taken my place at the front of the queue, which is a major improvement from a few years ago.

As others have said, though, I don't always filter to the front - it depends on the junction, the number of cars in the queue and the cycle of the lights. At some junctions I use there's no point in using the ASL, at others, I'll always use the ASL if the lights are red, though I filter to the left much less than splitting the lane or going down the outside. I accept that they can lull the inexperienced into some rash filtering.

In congested traffic, ASLs are a useful way of assisting the cyclist to maintain good progress.

 

[Alun]

Also beware those cars facing you at a light controlled crossroads looking for a quick right turn in front of you!

 

[stowie]

Also beware those cars facing you at a light controlled crossroads looking for a quick right turn in front of you!

Oh yes. I am by no means quick, but even an average cyclist can get away from the lights fairly rapidly which surprises some drivers who decide that they can cut in front. Once they have decided to cut in front I rarely find one who has the ability to change their mind after the lights have gone green.